The Death Penalty - are you for or against it and why?

[The Grand Nudger]

Are you implying here that there was no crime before capitalism, or, more specifically, that a significant portion of crime did not exist? What would we call it when someone in a syndicate thinks his neighbors identical doohicky just seems more awesome than his own, and relieves him of it?

(I really do like the general idea btw you two, I'm just not convinced that there's any reason to believe that it would work)

[reverendjeremiah]

How much work do you figure it would take to make up for raping and murdering a child. Is there a quota or number you'd care to toss out? What kind of work? Do they get paid for this, or is the joy of our presence being regranted pay enough?

This is a problem with every society. Do we murder them back? Do we put them in prisons where it is typical that rapists get raped?

This is difficult to decide.

A sanatarium for these types are a good idea. Sure, it is a prison, but it also is a hospital and psych ward. the more research we can do on these types, perhaps we could avoid it in the future.

---

Are you implying here that there was no crime before capitalism, or, more specifically, that a significant portion of crime did not exist? What would we call it when someone in a syndicate thinks his neighbors identical doohicky just seems more awesome than his own, and relieves him of it?

(I really do like the general idea btw you two, I'm just not convinced that there's any reason to believe that it would work)

Property is theft in a syndicate. Why should I steal your car when I have one of my own that I didnt have to pay for? Syndicates, if they are completely non capitalistic, work on a rationing system. everyone has equal reward. why should I steal your food if plenty of food is around for free? why should I break into your home for any reason, in that situation, unless it be for vengence or psychological sickness?

Lets look at prostitution for example. If people had an equal share of the pie, with good living conditions food, etc... why would a man or a woman sell their bodies in order to survive? Prostitution (selling your body for profit) does not exist in a community that considers concepts such as "profit" to be worthless.

So yes, capitalism DOES create criminality.

Also, crimes are what society deams as being illegal. In an anarcho-syndicate, there are very few, if any, laws. How can it be a crime if it is legal to do such a thing.

Of course it isnt perfect, but these are the prices we must pay for freedom. not the fake freedom we have now, where every year there are more and more laws on the books.

[Autumnlicious]

Property is theft in a syndicate. Why should I steal your car when I have one of my own that I didnt have to pay for? Syndicates, if they are completely non capitalistic, work on a rationing system. everyone has equal reward. why should I steal your food if plenty of food is around for free? why should I break into your home for any reason, in that situation, unless it be for vengence or psychological sickness?

This reminds me of communism and it's early pitches...

"If your neighbor has two chickens, then you get a chicken!!"

Gussy up the pig whatever you want, but authoritarianism develops anyways. It's merely a matter of time, and then your end result is a bankrupt state with aging technology and nonexistent intellectual property.

Pro-tip: Not all workers are equal, because the skill sets, costs and time to develop are not equal.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why should I steal....ask a thief. Sure, there are crimes of necessity and desperation, there are also ones with no motivation other than the crime itself, or simple desire (barely scratching the surface here on motivations for crimes obviously). There's still profit in your society btw, you just don't call it that. What happens if I decide that I don't want to do anything at all, do I still get the car? What if I don't like the car that's being handed out, can I pick a different one? Can I have two cars? Can I trade anything for an extra car, sexual favors perhaps?

There are as many laws as there are potential situations for grievances between people, in fact, that's a huge driving factor when it comes to laws. Precedent. Why assume that all of this would just go away if you called money, or profit, or what have you something different (such as a "fair share")?

[ElDinero]

I would much prefer exile. Kick that person outside of the borders, give the person one set of clothing and shoes and a bag full of tools to help him or her survive and then they are on their own.

And where, pray tell, would you suggest we exile them to?

[The Grand Nudger]

Anywhere but a prison, so I've been told. Also, wherever they get exiled, it isn't a prison. (I've offered my services in this hypothetical..lol)

[reverendjeremiah]

Property is theft in a syndicate. Why should I steal your car when I have one of my own that I didnt have to pay for? Syndicates, if they are completely non capitalistic, work on a rationing system. everyone has equal reward. why should I steal your food if plenty of food is around for free? why should I break into your home for any reason, in that situation, unless it be for vengence or psychological sickness?

This reminds me of communism and it's early pitches...

"If your neighbor has two chickens, then you get a chicken!!"

Gussy up the pig whatever you want, but authoritarianism develops anyways. It's merely a matter of time, and then your end result is a bankrupt state with aging technology and nonexistent intellectual property.

Pro-tip: Not all workers are equal, because the skill sets, costs and time to develop are not equal.

But anarcho-syndicalists dispise authority. thats why they shun the word "commune" (which indicates everyone being the same, thinking the same, etc.) and prefer a "co-op". syndicalism is a, for lack of better words and for the sake of simplicity, "co-op of individuals". Communism is authoritarian. syndicalists dispise and try to eradicate authority as much as possible. Communism forces everyone to comply. Syndicalism is based on what individuals are willing to come together for...wether as a single or as a group.

Sure, every governmental model has its problems. With this in mind, syndicalists prefer to avoid government all together (therefore ANARCHO-syndicalism). The one thing the vast majority of anarcho-syndicalists agree upon is that trade "codes" are what are the most important thing to be discussed. what standards of measurement should be used to ensure quality workanship. Safety protocols. Medical procedures. THESE are what should be the reason that counsels are formed and legislation made. There will be no government or state in a syndicalist society. It will be the representatives of different trades who come together to discuss the best way to move labor and production.

A syndicalist society, once time has set in, WILL make all workers equal. As syndicalism gives all people an equal share of the pie.

I should write a book on it

[The Grand Nudger]

The spice must flow!

also

I am the law!

[reverendjeremiah]

Why should I steal....ask a thief. Sure, there are crimes of necessity and desperation, there are also ones with no motivation other than the crime itself, or simple desire (barely scratching the surface here on motivations for crimes obviously). There's still profit in your society btw, you just don't call it that. What happens if I decide that I don't want to do anything at all, do I still get the car? What if I don't like the car that's being handed out, can I pick a different one? Can I have two cars? Can I trade anything for an extra car, sexual favors perhaps?

There are as many laws as there are potential situations for grievances between people, in fact, that's a huge driving factor when it comes to laws. Precedent. Why assume that all of this would just go away if you called money, or profit, or what have you something different (such as a "fair share")?

Syndicalism is not perfect. no government is perfect either.

Since you have made your point, allow me to retort.

Has capitalism removed the theif as well? No. Capitalism feeds the "crimes of necessity and desperation", but crimes of passion or simple desire are difficult to sheild from regardless of the system it happens in. By removing capitalism, you have removed HALF of the problem you have posted. With no capitalism, there will be no crimes of necessity or desperation... as capitalism puts people into necesity and desperation in these situations.

In syndicalism, it is an anarcho system, so it is very hard for me to be an "authority" on a system that is "anti-authority". Its hard for me to say this or that as many things in syndicalism are not set in stone. So please keep this in mind if we further this discussion.

"what happens if i dont want to do anything at all..do I still get that car?"

Well, that depends on the syndicalist juristiction you dwell in. Syndicates like myself may be a bit upset, but vote to decide to give you some time down, but not much. Syndicates such as Lilly (sae) may vote a "respect" system, in which everything you do is held as a sort of "credit" in your name. As I said before, it is hard for me to give you defined borders on a system that frowns upon defined borders and authority.

What if I don't like the car that's being handed out, can I pick a different one? Can I have two cars? Can I trade anything for an extra car, sexual favors perhaps?

I can see a successful syndicalism having a vast network of free transportation. Think of the metro on a much grander scale. I just used "car" as a quick example. I apologize in that situation. Cars tend to ruin the environment, something that syndicalists dispise. You will more than likely have a few options of electirc cars, and they will be rationed to you with plenty of public transportation available to you as well.

Why would you trade it for sex?

[The Grand Nudger]

Couldn't we build a vast system of free transportation in any system of government? Where does "rationing" fit into freedom? Why do people pay for sex Rev, I'm sure there are as many reasons as stars in the sky. I agree that any system of government has problems, what I'm wondering is how yours solves any of these problems, why make the switch? Even the idea of eliminating crimes of necessity, so syndicate A has less than syndicate b...what is syndicate A to do? The system you're describing to me just sounds like tribalism reworded.

---

Also, if the "problem" of greed can be dealt with by making sure everyone is provided for then why do we have "greedy billionaires"?