Official live update of spread of COVID19

[Irreligious Atheist]

According to the intelligence community, multiple people working at the lab were hospitalized with covid-like symptoms. Even Dr. Fauci has now changed his tune and has done a complete 180 and is finally publicly admitting that the lab leak hypothesis should be taken seriously.

Vindication. This is why I don't care that people call me a conspiracy theorist and try to shame me. Those people only have egg on their own face now. Scientific consensus was wrong and plagued with politics. Let this be a lesson for people here. Just because something is scientific consensus, that doesn't make it right.

And before anyone tries to say I'm still the conspiracy theorist because I believed without proof it came from the lab, like I expressed many times in the past, I have been agnostic about where the virus came from and I remain agnostic about where the virus came from until further information comes in. I just always took the lab leak hypothesis as a very serious possibility, and it does feel good to be vindicated about this, but at the same time, it's super sad to see how wrong the establishment, media, and scientific consensus were and how they got this so, so wrong. As a lover of science, it hurts me to see how scientific consensus can be shaped in part by politics.

People are investigating, but it is you who loves to jump to conclusions.

When it comes to mass diseases, they were always blamed on someone. Like the plague was blamed on Jews, and even AIDS was believed by many people that it was created in labs in the U.S.

Even if Coronavirus has a completely natural origin, there would still be people who would claim that it was created in some lab. So people, including you, should be very careful about making accusations.

What do you mean making accusations? I've been vindicated. I don't need to make any accusations. People who didn't take the lab leak hypothesis seriously or claimed it was conspiracy theory thinking are wrong, and they have egg on their face. That doesn't mean they are not intelligent people. I have great respect for the level of intelligence of many people on this board, but cognitive dissonance is a bitch. All of us here, including myself, have been wrong about something or another, and there's no shame in being wrong as long as you learn from your errors, and see that you were wrong to rush to judgment by calling people conspiracy theorists for taking seriously a very likely possibility of where this virus came from.

Of course I'm going to gloat a little and say I told you so when I've been vindicated and people threw out conspiracy theorist or nutbar comments, or even tried to say this conversation should not even be happening in this thread like one certain moderator tried to do by trying to move the conversation to the conspiracy theory thread.

Yes, some conspiracy theorists believe it was a bio-weapon released from a lab purposely to cause havoc. Your point? That has nothing to do with people/ scientists etc saying that the lab leak hypothesis has a decent chance of being correct. You can try to lump the unreasonable conspiracy theorists in with the reasonable people and reasonable scientists making reasonable claims about reasonable possibilities, but that just shows that you are trying to muddy the waters of reasonable debate by coming in and saying something along the lines of, "Yeah, your claims might be reasonable, but... what about those Q Anoners that think it's a bio weapon, huh? What about them?" Yeah, what about them? Their position was never close to my position, so stop being intellectually dishonest and trying to lump us all together.

I always said I was agnostic about where the virus came from. No one can quote me as posting anything other than that position.

[Angrboda]

Just out of curiosity, who would you say those naysayers were? Do you count me as one?

[Irreligious Atheist]

Just out of curiosity, who would you say those naysayers were?  Do you count me as one?

I don't remember exactly who they were, but there were many. Sungula and arewethereyet are a couple that come to mind. I asked Sungula if the former head of the CDC should be erased from the internet because he said the lab leak is likely and because he was supposedly spreading dangerous or harmful ideas to the public kind of like a Holocaust denier, and sungulas response was something along the lines of "Actions should have consequences", basically agreeing that the former head of the CDC should be silenced and erased from the internet.

I could go back into the thread and look up for you who else called it conspiracy thinking or mocked, but I'm not interesting in shaming people or calling them out by name. I just want people to see the error in their judgment and to learn from their mistakes, because I've been wrong about plenty of stuff in my life. We all have been wrong about plenty over the course of our lives I'm sure. The average level of intelligence on this forum is quite high compared to most forums, and I respect many of the posters here, despite disagreeing with them on some topics. We agree on most things I'm sure. I do not remember if you personally called the lab leak hypothesis conspiracy thinking, but if you say you didn't, I will take you at your word. I of course do not blame anyone on the forum who concluded that there was probably a natural origin to all of this, because that was scientific consensus, and you can usually bet on scientific consensus being right, but not this time (I mean about concluding that the lab leak hypothesis was highly unlikely and almost surely incorrect. I'm not trying to say it for sure came from a lab because we don't yet know where it came from). What really sucks is that now people are going to make the argument that scientific consensus was wrong on this, so maybe scientific consensus could be wrong about climate change and other things like that too (even though man made climate change is clearly happening). I'm not happy about any of this. I truly did not want to be right about this.

[Angrboda]

Just out of curiosity, who would you say those naysayers were?  Do you count me as one?

I don't remember exactly who they were, but there were many. Sungula and arewethereyet are a couple that come to mind. I asked Sungula if the former head of the CDC should be erased from the internet because he said the lab leak is likely and because he was supposedly spreading dangerous or harmful ideas to the public kind of like a Holocaust denier, and sungulas response was something along the lines of "Actions should have consequences", basically agreeing that the former head of the CDC should be silenced and erased from the internet.

I could go back into the thread and look up for you who else called it conspiracy thinking or mocked, but I'm not interesting in shaming people or calling them out by name. I just want people to see the error in their judgment and to learn from their mistakes, because I've been wrong about plenty of stuff in my life. We all have been wrong about plenty over the course of our lives I'm sure. The average level of intelligence on this forum is quite high compared to most forums, and I respect many of the posters here, despite disagreeing with them on some topics. We agree on most things I'm sure. I do not remember if you personally called the lab leak hypothesis conspiracy thinking, but if you say you didn't, I will take you at your word. I of course do not blame anyone on the forum who concluded that there was probably a natural origin to all of this, because that was scientific consensus, and you can usually bet on scientific consensus being right, but not this time. What really sucks is that now people are going to make the argument that scientific consensus was wrong on this, so maybe scientific consensus could be wrong about climate change and other things like that too (even though man made climate change is clearly happening). I'm not happy about any of this. I truly did not want to be right about this.

I'm just trying to gauge the accuracy of your claims. Since I have no interest in reviewing what those other people said at the moment, I'll just leave it at that.

[arewethereyet]

"I've been VINDICATED."

Funniest thing I have read here in a while.

[The Architect Of Fate]

You have not been a "VINDICATED" nutter 

And your also a liar as I never said nor implied anyone should be erased

As usual the conspiracy-minded are enamored with their delusions of victory 

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"I've been VINDICATED."

Funniest thing I have read here in a while.

Vindicated as delusional maybe 

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What do you mean making accusations? I've been vindicated. I don't need to make any accusations. People who didn't take the lab leak hypothesis seriously or claimed it was conspiracy theory thinking are wrong, and they have egg on their face

Nope not even close

It remains conspiracy thinking and isn't to be taken seriously. Period 

[Irreligious Atheist]

You have not been a "VINDICATED" nutter 

And your also a liar as I never said nor implied anyone should be erased

As usual the conspiracy-minded are enamored with their delusions of victory 

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"I've been VINDICATED."

Funniest thing I have read here in a while.

Vindicated as delusional maybe 

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What do you mean making accusations? I've been vindicated. I don't need to make any accusations. People who didn't take the lab leak hypothesis seriously or claimed it was conspiracy theory thinking are wrong, and they have egg on their face

Nope not even close

It remains conspiracy thinking and isn't to be taken seriously. Period 

Care to explain exactly what you meant when you posted that there should be consequences for actions? What consequences should there have been for the former head of the CDC?

Dr. Fauci came out and said he's no longer confident in his previous assessment that the virus emerged from nature. The jig is up. For once, it's time for you to man up and accept that you were wrong. You're only digging that hole deeper.

[ignoramus]

The lab leak theory is gaining traction ... Whether real or political.
We wouldn't have to wonder if the sociopaths at the CCP had allowed an independent investigation as Australia first suggested.
Any other country would've said, please do, we need to get to the bottom of this to stop it from happening again...

The CCP is nothing but a corrupt criminal organization.

[The Grand Nudger]

Proof that china was irresponsible or imprudent or withholding after the fact is, but shouldn't be taken to be, proof of the lab leak hypothesis.

What the genomic data tells us hasn't changed. The virus was live, in the wild...not in storage. Stored material is very apparent at this level because of gaps in it's recent evolutionary history. The most likely scenario based on data about the virus that could include even a kernel of the truth the nutters blow into a global conspiracy would suggest that if the outbreak did originate with some employee at the wuhan lab, they got it and transmitted it while they were out collecting something else. It didn't leak out from the lab, people.... as we were inevitably going to do... leaked into it's environment.

Virologists and environmentalists have been pulling the fire alarm about this for decades.

[Angrboda]

Well, it's anybody's guess, for sure, but China's lack of transparency helped make that the case. And it's not as if China is above acting on a conflict of interest.