[Serious] Non-binary

[The Architect Of Fate]

Kinda funny though, hearing millenials think they invented gender fluidity

To my knowledge, they have never claimed this 

 and scold the GenXers, who listened to Prince and Boy George

Yet constantly that generation mocks the notion of gender fluidity

. And it was way old back then

See above

[Rev. Rye]

Sorry, dude, but I don’t think I can co-sign with this view. First off, gender is not the same as sex. Sex is a biological thing and is truly binary (for the most part, anyway), but gender is a social construct. I know it can be kind of hard to truly wrap your head around all the implications of that, and this isn’t me being condescending, I freely admit that it can be very hard to separate ideas of biological sex and gender, and the rise of non-binary gender identities into the mainstream (though, to be fair, there have been groups with non-binary identities for millennia), I admit has been an example of that.

For me, it’s easy to find myself thinking: “So, what exactly is the point of identifying as non-binary? Can’t you just pick one gender and just disregard all the gender roles you don’t like?” But I know that, while I may not really get the point of it, I accept there’s likely something they know that I don’t that makes all the difference. A lot of the time, it’s a personal thing and who am I to judge something that doesn’t hurt anyone.

Real scientific study of what makes those with non-binary identities tick is still in its infancy. If it’s a genetic thing, there’s no point in calling it invalid. If it’s some sort of trend, at least it’s better than the old trend of isolating them and denying them any sort of community where they can talk about what they feel they are. Even if it turns out to just be some sort of ploy for attention, denouncing them does nothing but further feed that desire.

I admit I don’t really get the point of identifying as non-binary, but I also know there’s no reason to dismiss it as a delusion. And to say you no longer accept it as valid helps nobody and harms quite a few. Frankly, all I’d say at this point is “just keep your pronouns intuitive to pronounce.”

[John 6IX Breezy]

I admit I don’t really get the point of identifying as non-binary, but I also know there’s no reason to dismiss it as a delusion.

This isn't a topic I've taken time to research, but my impression is that its something that grew out of, or was popularized by political or ideological beliefs. Ideas can be infectious, and people latch on to them when it helps them make sense of who they are. Examples would be astrology—many people genuinely believe they are Virgos and Scorpios; or they'll build an entire community around their Myers-Brings personality types. My assumption is that the destabilizing effects of extreme social constructionist ideas, coupled with the little ambiguity we all have, and a growing community, leads some people to adopt it as their identity. (Note that many sub-sub-groups are always emerging: agender, bigender, etc.)

Specifically, I'm referring to those who identify as non-binary, but are not androgynous, intersexed, or transgender (which seems to be the main group of people adopting the identity).

p.s. I don't agree that gender is binary in the first place, or even categorical. Gender has no form—which is perhaps why so many identities are emerging in attempts to give it shape. Gender is performative (to use a popular phrase) it is the way your biological sex acts and thinks and feels, both internally and in society.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Nope 

[Anomalocaris]

Be forewarned that the opinions expressed below may offend you

The definition of Nonbinary is as follows:

Non-binary (also spelled nonbinary) or genderqueer is an umbrella term for gender identities that are neither male nor female‍—‌identities that are outside the gender binary.

From a scientific, biological, and objectively reasonable perspective, there are only two genders. Male or female. This is a fact that cannot be disputed.

How someone wishes to identify, however, is an entirely different matter, and lately I have found myself being more against the ill logics of the nonbinary movement despite being a part of the gay community. The reason for this is quite simple: I can no more support the delusion of a nonbinary concept any more than I can the concept of a deity that does not exist. Granted, how one wishes to identify in relation to the nonbinary ideology is not harmful to others. Therefore, I have no qualms accepting how others wish to identify. Yet, in spite of this, I cannot fully accept being nonbinary is in any way rational.

I can accept inclusivity up to a reasonable point, but once it no longer resembles logic I cannot in good conscience accept it as a reality.

Everything you say depends on completely ignoring the fact that gender in societal context has an heavy element of self-expression.    Is ignoring facts rational by your standard of rationality?

[Silver]

When it comes to gender, all I have ever seen is either male or female. Certainly, drag is an illusion, but even so the distinction is always there that one is either male or female. Not other.

[The Grand Nudger]

Male and female are sexes. I gather that you tend to see the world that way. You see people within the confines of that. Perhaps thats not how they view themselves...and, I think it would be difficult to float the idea that any illusory portion of a disagreement between how you see them and how they feel is on their end, rather than yours or mine or, broadly speaking, our own as a society. A person might tell us exactly who they are, but that won't make us see it, even if it's true. That's not how we've been lead to view things, we see it, for example, as either/or, maleboy/femalegirl. There are only two, can only be two, etc etc etc.

[Silver]

Semantics.

[The Grand Nudger]

Self perception is probably more than semantics. How would you respond to the notion that whatever you think you are, something profoundly important to you, about you, is semantics? When people tell us that they're Other, I think that they're probably making an accurate observation about themselves and in/of the context of our society's gender normative traditions or constructs.

[Anomalocaris]

When it comes to gender, all I have ever seen is either male or female. Certainly, drag is an illusion, but even so the distinction is always there that one is either male or female. Not other.

Really?  What is a hermaphrodite then?  That seems to be a sort of error one does not even have to think for a second to avoid making.

But think two seconds, why the hell does behavior as complex as human social expression have to undergo compulsory conditioning to correlate to the bipolar expression of gonad development?