[Quranic Reflection]: the Hajj.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sympathy for the devil, winter is neither stupid or ignorant, merely indoctrinated, which could be (and has been) done to us all. He's working on it. It's hilarious to watch, but he's working on it. I'm glad there was (and is) no af in my life while I work on shit.

That said - I wouldn't turn my back on him for an instant, out of understanding.

[R00tKiT]

The discussion is getting too condescending and intolerant. It's typical of atheists to presuppose they are smarter than the religious. In reality, those who worship cows or mummify cats have a more respectable epistemic position than these arrogant ex-christians.

[The Grand Nudger]

Its typical of a muslim to believe that no one could rightly believe anything other than what that specific muslim believes. In my experience.

What ex-christians? I have questions, and I've never been a christian. Next.

[R00tKiT]

Its typical of a muslim to believe that no one could rightly believe anything other than what that specific muslim believes.   In my experience.

Are you alluding to Winter's rejection of Hadiths ? I gave you many problems with the position of Qur'anism (accepting only the Qur'an) and you didn't adress any of it.

It's statistically atypical to reject hadiths, since 90%+ of the Muslim population are Sunni, i.e. accept all authentic collections of hadiths.

Do you have any other definition of typical?

What ex-christians?  I have questions, and I've never been a christian.  Next.

The majority of atheists here seem to be ex-christians. I am curious though, were you really a hardcore atheist your entire life?

[The Grand Nudger]

Im getting that you don't realize that your response establishes my point about the typicality of islamic belief - but fuck it, does it matter?

No, I've never believed in gods. I've believed in all sorts of silly shit, but never gods. I have no deconversion story, I don't know what it's like, I have no deconversion arguments..and never needed one. I hear what the faithful say...I'm actually pretty well read in our consequential myths...but they've never been anything more than that to me, as much as I enjoy the genre.

I see no god, need no god, and worship no god. Never have. That's how I stumble through my turgid existence. To put it very simply, even if that's a disservice, what I do see is all enough for me, and it's always been that way. I'm invested in what I do see because there is no other thing, to me. Life is as good or as bad as we make it, and...mostly..life is a hell of alot better than either you or even my fellow but ex-believing atheists(commonly) believe it to be. I chalk that down to the lingering effects of their indocrination into your shared life denying worldview. Your beliefs...in my opinion, are poisonous - and that's even worse than their being untrue.

Which, they are.

In fact, I'm absolutely certain that you would be surprised by what you and I don't disagree about, even though you wrongly believe that your own poisonous beliefs - genuinely held, are fundamental to those beliefs.

[WinterHold]

As long as we're getting all touchy-feely and sharing opinions, I'll recap mine.

When Wintehold first came here, my assessment was that he was stupid and ignorant, a fact I shared at the time.
When he left in a huff and came back again, I still thought he was stupid and ignorant, and repeated my earlier assessment.
And having read his drivel for many years I think I can conclusively say that he is in fact stupid and ignorant.

Take it or leave it.

Well, you can't please everyone. 
And I have a cause I'm here for which can be found in this old thread from 2018:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54806.html

Why I'm here: a Muslim. My Philosophy in life. What is yours;Muslim?

I gave the reason for my existence here:

Winter said in 2018 when he was "AtlasS":

I'm here to change what outsiders think about the Middle East. I'm here to throw my hand against the dictators of my regions, and the religious institutions of the Middle East, and show people what the Quran really said.

Take it or leave it

---

I'm telling you my view. Take it or leave it.

I’ll leave it, then.

Boru

ok.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

I am curious though, were you really a hardcore atheist your entire life?

I do find the above phrasing odd/weird/intriguing.

On the one hand I do get the "These non believers who are all 'In your face' about diety belief." I do.

But Klorophyll and WinterHold should rather be addressing the 'Average' of the non - believer bell curve.

For myself? I'm as 'Non-believing' as I am 'Non-stamp collecting' (And they'll probably push back against that trope) which is an apt comparison. Given the vagaries of average use of the English language.

I am not 'Millitant' in my knowledge/understanding of reality.

I just have different thoughts on/about 'What is' is all.

Sorry for sticking an oar in but cheers to folks anywho.

[Bucky Ball]

I would like to know EXACTLY on what date the hadith books became obsolete, and who decided that.

Fine, open a specific organized topic and don't repeat Anis Sharosh obscene act with Deedat 

---

Who says feeding trolls is not allowed? Of course it’s allowed.

Bucky is neither a troll nor a sock. In fact, no one (so far) in this thread has broken any rules.

Boru

Wikipedia has a very nice article about trolls:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses,[2] or  others' perception.

Don't feed these bastards 

So, bottom line remains, just as before .... you have nothing to refute historical facts. 
You know nothing about history. Nothing. 
I do get why you're so intent on diversion and evasion.

[arewethereyet]

As long as we're getting all touchy-feely and sharing opinions, I'll recap mine.

When Wintehold first came here, my assessment was that he was stupid and ignorant, a fact I shared at the time.
When he left in a huff and came back again, I still thought he was stupid and ignorant, and repeated my earlier assessment.
And having read his drivel for many years I think I can conclusively say that he is in fact stupid and ignorant.

Take it or leave it.

Well, you can't please everyone. 
And I have a cause I'm here for which can be found in this old thread from 2018:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54806.html

Why I'm here: a Muslim. My Philosophy in life. What is yours;Muslim?

I gave the reason for my existence here:

Winter said in 2018 when he was "AtlasS":

I'm here to change what outsiders think about the Middle East. I'm here to throw my hand against the dictators of my regions, and the religious institutions of the Middle East, and show people what the Quran really said.

Take it or leave it

---

I’ll leave it, then.

Boru

ok.

Three year old cause. What have you accomplished?

Not much from what I can see. At least nothing positive.

[WinterHold]

Well, you can't please everyone. 
And I have a cause I'm here for which can be found in this old thread from 2018:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54806.html


I gave the reason for my existence here:




Take it or leave it

---

ok.

Three year old cause.  What have you accomplished?

Not much from what I can see.  At least nothing positive.

If I changed the view of a "mere single individual" from "negative viewing of Islam & Muslims:" to "positive viewing", then that's a victory to me and the religion I believe in.

The Quran does not orders people to murder and pelauge, it doesn't orders people to sexualize women, it doesn't order people to do the terrible nonsense Sunnies and Shiites do. I read the book once and twice and thrice, but I found that the people who have Nuclear Weapons are non-Muslims, I found that the common denominator in all religious evil is abandoning the source book and listening to "Imams and Priests and Institutions" instead".

Just 1 person. That's enough for me. Changing their view is enough.
If none changed, at least I have myself.