(July 29, 2021 at 6:39 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:

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(July 29, 2021 at 1:16 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You’ll have to decide which absurd thing you intend to argue Kloro.  That magic book tells us how to pray, or that without Hadith we wouldn’t know how to pray.

I’m only pointing out that to a person who doesn’t believe in Hadith..your worries about how, then, to pray - are your own.  Not theirs.

The loss of the contents of the Hadith matter as much to a Quran only believer as the loss of the Quran would matter to a Christian.

I'm sorry but is it difficult for you to understand that a Muslim should really really know how to pray ? The person who doesn't believe in hadiths still believes in the utility of prayer, which brings them back to the hadiths. It really isn't difficult.

I don't think anything about your religion is important.

Is it difficult for you to understand, as a hadithist, that a non-hadithist isn't concerned by what concerns you, even if you demand that everyone -be- concerned?   They simply aren't.  That's what reform looks like. A non hadithist doesn't believe that hadith are necessary to islam, and your opinion that they are means nothing to them. People who'd never heard of them..because they hadn't yet been compiled or compiled in whatever form you deem crucial or just because they didn't have possession of them certainly didn't need them to be muslims.

(July 29, 2021 at 6:42 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(July 29, 2021 at 10:35 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: I would like to know EXACTLY on what date the hadith books became obsolete, and who decided that.

Fine, open a specific organized topic and don't repeat Anis Sharosh obscene act with Deedat 

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(July 29, 2021 at 6:01 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Who says feeding trolls is not allowed? Of course it’s allowed.

Bucky is neither a troll nor a sock. In fact, no one (so far) in this thread has broken any rules.

Boru

Wikipedia has a very nice article about trolls:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Quote:In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses,[2] or  others' perception.

Don't feed these bastards 

I find myself monumentally unconcerned with the amount of control Wikipedia has over this forum.

I’m somewhat more concerned that you personally feel compelled to dictate how this forum operates.

Boru

(July 29, 2021 at 7:31 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 29, 2021 at 6:42 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Fine, open a specific organized topic and don't repeat Anis Sharosh obscene act with Deedat 

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Wikipedia has a very nice article about trolls:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll



Don't feed these bastards 

I find myself monumentally unconcerned with the amount of control Wikipedia has over this forum.

I’m somewhat more concerned that you personally feel compelled to dictate how this forum operates.

Boru

I'm telling you my view. Take it or leave it.

(July 29, 2021 at 7:29 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is it difficult for you to understand, as a hadithist, that a non-hadithist isn't concerned by what concerns you, even if you demand that everyone -be- concerned?   They simply aren't.  That's what reform looks like. 

Seriously, Islam is the last religion anyone can even possibly dream to "reform", whatever reform is supposed to mean. In a nutshell, Muslims imitate Muhammad's doings and follow his sayings, so, unless one has a way to travel in time and somehow change what Muhammad did, Islam will stay as it is forever. That's what Islam is by definition, following someone's past actions.

(July 29, 2021 at 7:29 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is it difficult for you to understand, as a hadithist, that a non-hadithist isn't concerned by what concerns you, even if you demand that everyone -be- concerned?   They simply aren't.  That's what reform looks like.  A non hadithist doesn't believe that hadith are necessary to islam,

A non-hadithist believes the Qur'an is necessary to Islam. They try to apply what's in the Qur'an, they find unsurmountable challenges => non-hadithism fails. You have evidence of that in the OP's thread. Go back and read what he wrote, he brought up the 5 pillars !! Where are the 5 pillars in the Qur'an ? Nowhere. Winter knows that his view of Islam is garbage because without the 5 pillars, he has no way to even define the word "Muslim" -someone who practices the 5 pillars or is trying to do them. One of the 5 pillars is prayer, and the Qur'an tells the non-hadithist there is a middle prayer, so the total number of prayers can be any odd number of prayers, and here the non-hadithist is simply stuck without additiional information.

In this thread, Winter tried to write something about the Hajj -one of the 5 pillars- and was quickly forced to borrow from the hadiths and mention the stoning of the devil -another ritual that one doesn't find in the Qur'an- this looks very bad for a non-hadithist like Winter.

You're free of course to arbitrarily choose an odd number of prayer and a personal way to apply the rituals mentioned in the Qur'an, but in this case, you would be following your head, not Muhammad.

(July 29, 2021 at 10:14 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(July 29, 2021 at 7:31 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I find myself monumentally unconcerned with the amount of control Wikipedia has over this forum.

I’m somewhat more concerned that you personally feel compelled to dictate how this forum operates.

Boru

I'm telling you my view. Take it or leave it.

I’ll leave it, then.

Boru

Christians once thought that no one could ever reform christianity, too.

(July 29, 2021 at 10:14 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(July 29, 2021 at 7:31 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I find myself monumentally unconcerned with the amount of control Wikipedia has over this forum.

I’m somewhat more concerned that you personally feel compelled to dictate how this forum operates.

Boru

I'm telling you my view. Take it or leave it.

Which is exactly what others are doing, yet when YOU do it, you think it's OK, when WE do it, it's trolling. 
What a hypocrite. 
Go away. 
You have nothing AT ALL to offer here.

(July 30, 2021 at 8:48 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Christians once thought that no one could ever reform christianity, too.

Time does have a way of neutering "absolute truth" and recasting it as a mythological curiosity.

In the grand scheme of things, all religions are doomed.  Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not soon, but definitely sometime around the heat death of the universe.

(July 29, 2021 at 10:14 pm)WinterHold Wrote:

(July 29, 2021 at 7:31 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I find myself monumentally unconcerned with the amount of control Wikipedia has over this forum.

I’m somewhat more concerned that you personally feel compelled to dictate how this forum operates.

Boru

I'm telling you my view. Take it or leave it.

My view is you are actually the troll and you eat cat turds.

Take it or leave it.
RAmen

As long as we're getting all touchy-feely and sharing opinions, I'll recap mine.

When Wintehold first came here, my assessment was that he was stupid and ignorant, a fact I shared at the time.
When he left in a huff and came back again, I still thought he was stupid and ignorant, and repeated my earlier assessment.
And having read his drivel for many years I think I can conclusively say that he is in fact stupid and ignorant.

Take it or leave it.