Hey Portland - you might get what you deserve.

[arewethereyet]

The bottom line is 

Trans Women are Women and should be allowed to use Women's facilities. The fact unsavory people might take advantage of that is irrelevant (considering women can molest girls too) So this story is irrelevant.

Oh Andy Ngo as a source again ......Fail

That's fine. Trans women can use women's facilities now. That is the law and people need to get used to it. I posted the LA times article because I was accused of pushing a hoax by your side, and it was claimed that no trans person was even in the spa. Turns out you were the ones pushing the fake news, and that's why I brought this thread back up.

What a liar.

Your issue was children being targeted in spas...apparently where you are (in your warped damn mind) that's a thing. Children in spas being accosted by trans women.

Do a lot of children go to spas in your world?

Stop with the spin.

[The Architect Of Fate]

That's fine. Trans women can use women's facilities now. That is the law and people need to get used to it. I posted the LA times article because I was accused of pushing a hoax by your side, and it was claimed that no trans person was even in the spa. Turns out you were the ones pushing the fake news, and that's why I brought this thread back up.

Nope, we went evidence as it was at the time you were pushing an unconfirmed story. So this little attempt at a gotcha fails. Like always.

So nice try 

[LadyForCamus]

What I want to know is how likely it is that this is going to happen. Frankly, something like this is very much theoretical. I know this because I've heard loads of stories of alleged transgender assaults in women's spaces, and the remarkable thing is that I can remember exactly two cases where the perp actually claimed that they had gender issues that meant they should belong there. It's also worth nothing that in both cases, the perps had a history of child molestation. You'd think this would be a bigger red flag than a nontraditional gender identity.

Frankly, the more I look at it, it looks like the idea of becoming trans just to invade women's spaces is just an overly complicated method of getting away with sexual assault, what with it requiring a lot of time and medical intervention and having a huge social stigma (one that's getting better, but still bad enough that giving them basic human rights is a controversial hot-button issue) attached to it. And even if you do pull it off without trouble, assault (sexual or otherwise) is still illegal, so it's not like they're going to exploit a loophole by claiming to be transitioning.

You know what's simpler for someone looking to invade women's spaces and raping them? Just going in there, doing what you want to do, and hoping you stay one of the grey men in this infographic:

Admittedly, the exact numbers for each statistic are controversial, but what isn't for those who actually study sexual assault: the grey guys who never get caught are always going to outnumber the blue ones who end up on the cops' radar.

To be honest with you, I have not put a whole lot of thought into the trans in locker rooms and saunas issue. The bathroom thing was obvious from the start to me. Let them use whatever washroom they want. Would I, a grown man, go and get naked in front of women or children? No. Therefore my position was that maybe it's going a little too far to push this on women and girls so suddenly. It's not about morality for me. Like I said in another post, if society eventually becomes nudist, then so be it. That's not necessarily something I would push for, but I would not call that society immoral either.

I am open to changing my position on this, but right now, the US is in for a rough ride trying to transition to intersex locker rooms. It's not going to be a smooth transition. Are trans people really going to be safer using the women's locker rooms? I'm not sure about that.

Except that’s not the point of the law. The point is to give trans people the freedom to use which ever bathroom they’re most comfortable in. Full stop.

[Rev. Rye]

Well, whaddayaknow? I think we have a third legit case of trans women invading women's spaces and committing sex crimes. And it looks like, if true, we're still currently three for three about them having prior sex offenses. I can't confirm if said priors were with children, but given the few cases I've found that actually checked out, I'd be more surprised if they weren't.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Well, whaddayaknow? I think we have a third legit case of trans women invading women's spaces and committing sex crimes. And it looks like, if true, we're still currently three for three about them having prior sex offenses. I can't confirm if said priors were with children, but given the few cases I've found that actually checked out, I'd be more surprised if they weren't.

Of course, the question how many Trans sex offenders do you imagine there are in comparison to CIS women? I wonder if they would still be allowed in the Spa or are you only considered a sex offender if you have a penis?

[Rev. Rye]

Well, whaddayaknow? I think we have a third legit case of trans women invading women's spaces and committing sex crimes. And it looks like, if true, we're still currently three for three about them having prior sex offenses. I can't confirm if said priors were with children, but given the few cases I've found that actually checked out, I'd be more surprised if they weren't.

Of course, the question how many Trans sex offenders do you imagine there are in comparison to CIS women? I wonder if they would still be allowed in the Spa or are you only considered a sex offender if you have a penis?

Almost certainly more. I know this because I just checked the California sex offenders' registry and found four female sex offenders (that I noticed) within a two mile radius of the gym in question.

And bear in mind, this is probably the third case of transwomen invading women's spaces and committing sex crimes there I've found in my lifetime that checks out. And meanwhile, as far as I can tell, that number is outnumbered by the number of cis women sexual offenders who live within 2 miles of the gym, which is a small section (1/37th total) of the second-largest city in America. We’re talking well over a hundred before we even leave the bizarrely chaotically-defined city limits.

That said, I can't be 100% certain Sheela Silver, Victoria Ineguez, Malinda Gallegos, and Cythia Chamberlain are cis, but I'm just going to assume they are, since nothing of the sort is mentioned on their profiles.

[Rev. Rye]

Doing a little more research with a radius of 10 miles from the spa (and given all the enclaves that exist within the city's borders for whatever reason and all the outlying areas of Greater Los Angeles, I'm not even going to bother calculating how much of the city it contains), and I found 25 cis female sex offenders (there could be more, since I couldn't sort by gender and had to rely on names). That said, it looks like I did find two trans offenders. Inez Bustamente, who, and Elizabeth Netter (who may just be a cis dude with the name Elizabeth, given that the alias section doesn't give any male names, unlike Bustamente.) Before IA jumps on this finding, I should point out that their offenses are 15 years apart (so, not much of a trend unless they're arguing that these attacks work like Pennywise but with a shorter period between attacks) and I have no idea whether or not they had even transitioned before or after their convictions or whether their crimes involved invading women's spaces, since I can't find any more information besides what I found on California's Megan's Law website.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Let's keep in mind that the laws just changed to allow trans into locker rooms/ saunas/ prisons/ sports so we're working with a pretty small sample size when it comes to time.

And I never claimed to be worried about trans people. Cis men are allowed into these spaces just as much as trans women are, since it's all based on claimed identity at the door. The first thing sungula did when he found out about the indecent exposure charges, was question whether the person was really trans or just lying.

Would you be comfortable with Mike Tyson moving from a men's prison to a women's prison because he decides one day to say he identifies as trans? I don't know if I would want to be a bio woman in that prison.

Sports is the other thing. Many trans activists say they don't care if it's fair or not, and that preventing trans people from killing themselves is more important than who wins or loses in a race. Is this the right mindset to have? Should women and girls not have the right to their own sports? I don't know if that's quite the best argument, that we need to take something away from bio women because someone else is threatening to kill themselves if we don't, but this appears to be another losing battle for those against trans women in sports, and on the upside, maybe with a few trans women dunking in the WNBA, people might actually start tuning in and the league may actually turn into a success.

[arewethereyet]

We get it, your are transphobic.

You can stop now.

[Irreligious Atheist]

We get it, your are transphobic.

You can stop now.

So you'd sign on to having Mike Tyson as your cellmate? Got it.