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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 9:25 am
I couldn't give a fuck, tbh.
I don't believe in any of the miracle bullshit, so I don't care if he existed. It would be as significant as one wondering if a man called Wallace lived in in Scotland 500 years ago You could easily make up a story involving this Wallace and pass it around as truth... It would probably eventually catch on.
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 10:22 am
(November 21, 2011 at 9:25 am)frankiej Wrote: I couldn't give a fuck, tbh.
I don't believe in any of the miracle bullshit, so I don't care if he existed. It would be as significant as one wondering if a man called Wallace lived in in Scotland 500 years ago You could easily make up a story involving this Wallace and pass it around as truth... It would probably eventually catch on.
It's actually shakier than that.
I hold characters of religion and folklore to a higher standard than mundane characters of history. The basis of this higher standard is ECREE combined with a knowledge of how folklore routinely blurs the lines between fact and fantasy.
For example, and this one is often cited by apologists, Socrates was a Greek philosopher. This is hardly an extraordinary claim. Further, the forces that shape urban legend are unlikely to manufacture such an ordinary character.
Heroes of a society, like Hercules, Gilgamesh, Hiawatha, Moses, King Arthur and Jesus, who's stories are mixed in with the stuff of fantasy, are more suspect because the same forces of mythmaking that can fabricate magical stories can just as easily fabricate a person.
We know that even today, in the modern age of communication where fact checking is just a mouse click away, glurge stories spread all over the internet. A work of fiction can later be retold as a "true story". Details are added as the story is passed along. It continues to get better with the telling. So it can happen with the stories of folk heroes and therefore we need to take them with that much more skepticism.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 1:13 pm
I lean toward the idea that he did exist, but was most likely some lunatic crackpot who believed he could heal. And people, being more naive in that day, believed him. They blabbed about it to their colleagues, and over time, the story of this weirdo reached mythic proportions.
Trudging through endless religion one step at a time.
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 1:20 pm
Does ever mythic hero need such a "germ of truth" though. Xtians love to indulge in special pleading for their godboy.
I won't give them any help.
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Hagiography is he term for an overly reverential biography that often lapses into fantasy.
This type of thing normally relates to medieval writings on the saints and their impossible deeds but could be just as easily assigned to the new testament.
an example og hagiography is the story of st bidgit of Kldare
St bridgit of Kildare was a renowned beauty who was to be married against her will but she wished to become a nun and prayed to god to make her ugly so no man would want her, she promptly lost an eye so got her wish.
There were hundreds of this sort of pish peddled as fact an you just have to take into acount that early historians played fast and loose with the details of events, caring little for things like facts, as long as it conveyed the message they wanted to give.
Its in this light that you have to view the new testament, a document of lies written at a time when lying was the norm and most people were just too ignorant and ill educated to see it.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 1:56 pm
(November 21, 2011 at 1:38 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Hagiography is he term for an overly reverential biography that often lapses into fantasy.
This type of thing normally relates to medieval writings on the saints and their impossible deeds but could be just as easily assigned to the new testament.
an example og hagiography is the story of st bidgit of Kldare
St bridgit of Kildare was a renowned beauty who was to be married against her will but she wished to become a nun and prayed to god to make her ugly so no man would want her, she promptly lost an eye so got her wish.
There were hundreds of this sort of pish peddled as fact an you just have to take into acount that early historians played fast and loose with the details of events, caring little for things like facts, as long as it conveyed the message they wanted to give.
Its in this light that you have to view the new testament, a document of lies written at a time when lying was the norm and most people were just too ignorant and ill educated to see it.
Saint Imelda is one of my faves.
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=125
Now she's one of the "incorruptible".
Saint Agnes is a pretty crazy story too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_of_Rome
She was my patron saint for confirmation.
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 11:17 pm
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2011 at 11:21 pm by Justtristo.)
(November 21, 2011 at 9:25 am)frankiej Wrote: I couldn't give a fuck, tbh.
I don't believe in any of the miracle bullshit, so I don't care if he existed. It would be as significant as one wondering if a man called Wallace lived in in Scotland 500 years ago You could easily make up a story involving this Wallace and pass it around as truth... It would probably eventually catch on.
We have good credible historical evidence for the existence of William Wallace and we can be reasonably sure a lot of things about him and his life. However we don't have that kind of evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth.
To consider Jesus of Nazareth as an undisputable historical character. Just finding a contemporary source with somebody stating they met Jesus of Nazareth would be enough. We have for instance letters reportedly by Apollonius of Tyana which don't seem be forged.
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 11:27 pm
Quote:We have good credible historical evidence for the existence of William Wallace
However, Braveheart was not one of them!
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 21, 2011 at 11:33 pm
Honestly, I care more about the existence of unicorns than I do about the existence of Jebus.
That will never hold up in court...
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RE: Did Jesus Even Really Exist?
November 22, 2011 at 12:07 am
(November 21, 2011 at 11:33 pm)Phaedra Wrote: Honestly, I care more about the existence of unicorns than I do about the existence of Jebus.
I would not concern much for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, if it wasn't for the apologists and evangelists going on about "Jesus is the best attested character in history etc".
Also that trashing any historicity for the bible is I believe the only way to ever plant a seed of doubts in the thick skulls of some Christians.
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