Russia and Ukraine

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, yeah, americans are the worst. In other news, Russia declared war on Ukraine, and it looks like it's not going exactly to plan for them.

[Anomalocaris]

they seem to have formulated an effective plan to defend their core interest by taking advantage of our mistakes.

We scored an own goal by making discretionary commitments we can’t meet and which was well beyond core interest and focused largely on aggrandizement, but which does real damage if we fail to follow through on.

since putin took office, They kept everything they invaded.  we got kicked out of everywhere we invaded. 

who do you think is the bigger fool?

[The Grand Nudger]

In the moral and geo political sewer, it doesn't really matter who or if one party or another is a fool - only who swings their bat hardest, last, at any given moment.

I'm not really sure it's a good comparison, though, since we don't tend to invade countries as an issue of territorial expansion. Hell, we won't even make pr a state.

[Anomalocaris]

In the moral and geo political sewer, it doesn't really matter who or if one party or another is a fool - only who swings their bat hardest, last, at any given moment.

I'm not really sure it's a good comparison, though, since we don't tend to invade countries as an issue of territorial expansion.  Hell, we won't even make pr a state.

we may not invade country for territory, but we certainly largely failed to achieve the goals of eliminating influences of our boogeymen and changing regional balance of power in our own favor, for which we did invaded these countries.   

Russia really didn’t invade coubtries for territory either, they invaded to take territory to weaken or overthrow governments in neighbors too friendly to NATO.   But generally they did achieve these goals, and kept the territory in the bargain.

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ultimately,  the foundational truth is Russia occupies a fantastically important geographic position for the purpose dominating the Euroasia continent but lacks the economic scale or industrial organization to leverage that into the position of euroasia hegemon for herself.

China can supply the industrial organization and economic power needed by an euroasia hegemon but lacks the appropriate geographical position to easily be one herself.

Pushing Russia towards china would be foolish because between the two there is everything needed to dominate euroasia continent, and they share a border and have interior lines of communication that is largely immune to interference by an external sea power such as the US

The potential power of an euroasia hegemon would dwarve the potential power of the US.

So what we do to punish russia has to be mitigated by the consideration that one must never place Russia in a position where she feels she depends largely on china to sustain and develop her economy,  or that they have so much interest in common that it is no brainer for them to enter into a comprehensive alliance.

[The Grand Nudger]

Putins many public thoughts on the subject would seem to suggest that you've got that wrong. I'm sure that china and russia can work something out as well. I'm also surprised that american hegemony has lasted as long as it has even before today.

Again, we're in the sewer, though, so none of that matters. We can just lose our shit and start flinging missiles, I suppose. At no point in this does any comment on what one nation can do not apply to another. I guess the world would just have to do what we say so long as we threaten to kill someone else out of frustration over what russia has done.

I have an idea, lets invade and denazify chile in reprisal to russian aggression. If anyone objects, threaten them with nukes. There's something that even a fool could accomplish. I'm sure someone would come along and call it brilliant, and genius, and talk about the 10 dimensional chess game our leader was playing.

[Anomalocaris]

If china and russia enters into a comprehensive alliance then western hegemony in global affairs will effectively end.

[The Grand Nudger]

Agreed. It'd suck for ukraine and many other nations, too. Nothing to do about it though, we're in the sewer. Politics and diplomacy are theater in that context. If they want to do that, they'll give it a shot, and fuck you is why, and if we want to stop that, we'll start shooting at them, and fuck you is why.

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Interesting little update. Apparently, the russians got their asses handed to them because they just couldn't help but climb out of their vehicles to loot stores as they passed. Whoops. You brought that tin can all the way from russia for your protection Dmitri, best stay in it till the fights won.

[onlinebiker]

Hey Brian - ya hear??? The Ukrainians are handing out guns like candy.....

I thought that was a bad thing ???

[The Grand Nudger]

It will be, for either party, after the conflict. They'll have to have some program in place to re-secure them.

[WinterHold]

Agreed.  It'd suck for ukraine and many other nations, too.  Nothing to do about it though, we're in the sewer.  Politics and diplomacy are theater in that context.  If they want to do that, they'll give it a shot, and fuck you is why, and if we want to stop that, we'll start shooting at them, and fuck you is why.

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Interesting little update.  Apparently, the russians got their asses handed to them because they just couldn't help but climb out of their vehicles to loot stores as they passed.  Whoops.  You brought that tin can all the way from russia for your protection Dmitri, best stay in it till the fights won.

Beware of believing western propaganda; remember that the west lied to the whole world in the Afghanistan war, and the reality was that they're getting their asses kicked, and ended fleeing the country leaving their "allies" behind:



They did it again with the Ukraine, sanctions are not enough to stop a Russian/Chinese alliance.
Now you'll see how "merciful and civilised" the Taliban truly were compared to Russians.