Satanic verses

[R00tKiT]

-and contemporary western atheism is more recent than islam, but you don't appear to think that fact is instructive in that regard.

Well atheism isn't a religion nor does it have scripture, you're not really comparing like with like.

 borrowing his religion to unify an arabic audience....but I digress.

Muslims believe the christian religion/judaism were originally from God, so the Qur'an having many things in common with these religions isn't surprising.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and contemporary western atheism is more recent than islam, but you don't appear to think that fact is instructive in that regard.

Well atheism isn't a religion nor does it have scripture, you're not really comparing like with like.

If I could just keep you in my pocket for everytime we have to hear some nutter like yourself argue otherwise.......

No matter, ultimately, as I think we both know that there are any number of more recent beliefs and religions whose closer space in time to us is not taken by you to be indicative of it's greater accuracy.  Chiefly, each and every thing that exposes your beliefs for the sham that they have always been. This renders your previous comments moot..and more than just a little bit disingenuos... on their own grounds.

Muslims believe the christian religion/judaism were originally from God, so the Qur'an having many things in common with these religions isn't surprising.

Mhm, that's exactly what I just said.  That was islams first problem - the rest was just a pile-on. I consider that to be the pure tragedy of the religion - as it didn't have to do that. It ends up expressing a far more progressive view of the world than it's predecessors and alot of the hinkiest shit can be directly tied to it's having held it's own credibility hostage to those other comparatively retrograde faiths.

That which is not true, must be true.....somehow...for islam to be true. An unenviable position to be in.

[R00tKiT]

No matter, ultimately, as I think we both know that there are any number of more recent beliefs and religions whose closer space in time to us is not taken by you to be indicative of it's greater accuracy.  

Well I would be happy to grant that the Book of Mormon is 100% accurate, which is to say this book contains exactly what Joseph Smith intended for it to. I don't know why you think this argument is disingenuous, as a book being accurate doesn't mean it's true.. so an atheist is not really doing Muslims a huge favor by granting them that the Qur'an is preserved.

Mhm, that's exactly what I just said.  That was islams first problem - the rest was just a pile-on.  I consider that to be the pure tragedy of the religion - as it didn't have to do that.  It ends up expressing a far more progressive view of the world than it's predecessors and alot of the hinkiest shit can be directly tied to it's having held it's own credibility hostage to those other comparatively retrograde faiths.

The Qur'an boldly rejected many christian doctrines, chiefly the idea of trinity, what we have in common with christian belief is the unique status of Jesus - we think he is an important prophet of God, and that God inspired him the original Bible, christians go much farther, as we all know.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well I would be happy to grant that the Book of Mormon is 100% accurate, which is to say this book contains exactly what Joseph Smith intended for it to. I don't know why you think this argument is disingenuous, as a book being accurate doesn't mean it's true.. so an atheist is not really doing Muslims a huge favor by granting them that the Qur'an is preserved.

We don't exist to grant wishes, no.                                                        

The Qur'an boldly rejected many christian doctrines, chiefly the idea of trinity, what we have in common with christian belief is the unique status of Jesus - we think he is an important prophet of Good, and that God inspired him the original Bible, christians go much farther, as we all know.

Yup, the signs of the strained relationship between islam and it's borrowed ladder even at the very beginning.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

No matter, ultimately, as I think we both know that there are any number of more recent beliefs and religions whose closer space in time to us is not taken by you to be indicative of it's greater accuracy.  

Well I would be happy to grant that the Book of Mormon is 100% accurate, which is to say this book contains exactly what Joseph Smith intended for it to. I don't know why you think this argument is disingenuous, as a book being accurate doesn't mean it's true.. so an atheist is not really doing Muslims a huge favor by granting them that the Qur'an is preserved.

Mhm, that's exactly what I just said.  That was islams first problem - the rest was just a pile-on.  I consider that to be the pure tragedy of the religion - as it didn't have to do that.  It ends up expressing a far more progressive view of the world than it's predecessors and alot of the hinkiest shit can be directly tied to it's having held it's own credibility hostage to those other comparatively retrograde faiths.

The Qur'an boldly rejected many christian doctrines, chiefly the idea of trinity, what we have in common with christian belief is the unique status of Jesus - we think he is an important prophet of God, and that God inspired him the original Bible, christians go much farther, as we all know.

(Bold mine)

I invite you to reflect on that statement.

Boru

[Angrboda]

No matter, ultimately, as I think we both know that there are any number of more recent beliefs and religions whose closer space in time to us is not taken by you to be indicative of it's greater accuracy.  

Well I would be happy to grant that the Book of Mormon is 100% accurate, which is to say this book contains exactly what Joseph Smith intended for it to. I don't know why you think this argument is disingenuous, as a book being accurate doesn't mean it's true.. so an atheist is not really doing Muslims a huge favor by granting them that the Qur'an is preserved.

What does the word 'accurate' mean to you?

[R00tKiT]

I meant by a book being accurate that no textual error was made in its production. But it looks like the primary definiton of "accurate" is in fact correct/true . Anyway sorry for butchering the english term, english isn't my native language.

[The Grand Nudger]

The new testament, also, says exactly what it's authors wanted it to. They went to a considerable amount of trouble to ensure that it did. They, ofc, also believed that their magic man really said the stuff inside. Really did the stuff inside. Really was who it says he was.

[R00tKiT]

The new testament, also, says exactly what it's authors wanted it to.  

Bold mine. It doesn't seem Jesus is the only author, then. We can stop there I think. afaik christians claim the authors are divinely inspired, they already gave up defending the claim that the books are jesus's sayings. Even the claim isn't there anymore.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is that really something you'd like to quibble about?

Big Mo wasn't the author of your magic book. No, lol, christians have not given up the amusing notion that magic book contains the words of wisdom of their own magic man. No more than you, a muslim, have given up on that same notion. Do you not also continue to believe, as they believe, that your own magic book was divinely inspired?