Russia and Ukraine

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Since the most widely known classic blunder is "never get involved in a land war in Asia,"  it's safe to say Russia did not mount the current offensive out of fear of invasion.

I suspect that it was mainly a land grab, and is absolutely shameful, in the same category as Manifest Destiny.

So, NOT because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, then?

Boru

[Jehanne]

I suspect that it was mainly a land grab, and is absolutely shameful, in the same category as Manifest Destiny.

So, NOT because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, then?

Boru

That was probably a secondary reason, but, I think that the principle reason was land. Again, if Ukraine (in whole or in part) joins NATO, Putin could simply line the border with thermonuclear weapons and blow them to bits if war ever broke out.

[Deesse23]

So, NOT because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, then?

Boru

That was probably a secondary reason, but, I think that the principle reason was land.  Again, if Ukraine (in whole or in part) joins NATO, Putin could simply line the border with thermonuclear weapons and blow them to bits if war ever broke out.

At his point, after pages of arguing about Ukraine joining NATO being the cause of Russia invading Ukraine, i have to assume that you werent arguing in good faith. Im done.

But let this be known: Its not only unreasonable, but unethical to demand others giving up their freedoms for your perceived fears.

[Jehanne]

That was probably a secondary reason, but, I think that the principle reason was land.  Again, if Ukraine (in whole or in part) joins NATO, Putin could simply line the border with thermonuclear weapons and blow them to bits if war ever broke out.

At his point, after pages of arguing about Ukraine joining NATO being the cause of Russia invading Ukraine, i have to assume that you werent arguing in good faith. Im done.

But let this be known: Its not only unreasonable, but unethical to demand others giving up their freedoms for your perceived fears.

Putin does not call me on the phone, and if he did, I would not believe a damn thing that he said. I can only speculate as to his real motives, and it is likely that he has changed his mind over the months. In this thread, nor anywhere else, have I made any claims to being clairvoyant.

I will not fight and die in Ukraine, nor do I want any of my children fighting there, nor do I want United States troops there ether, and, I want the "money pit" to end sooner rather than later.

[Deesse23]

At his point, after pages of arguing about Ukraine joining NATO being the cause of Russia invading Ukraine, i have to assume that you werent arguing in good faith. Im done.

But let this be known: Its not only unreasonable, but unethical to demand others giving up their freedoms for your perceived fears.

I will not fight and die in Ukraine, nor do I want any of my children fighting there, nor do I want United States troops there ether, and, I want the "money pit" to end sooner rather than later.

Last post you claimed its your fears, now you claim its the "money pit". Your fear vs others freedoms, or some money vs others freedoms. Either way: Unethical and arguing in bad faith. Thx for the confirmation.

[Jehanne]

I will not fight and die in Ukraine, nor do I want any of my children fighting there, nor do I want United States troops there ether, and, I want the "money pit" to end sooner rather than later.

Last post you claimed its your fears, now you claim its the "money pit". Your fear vs others freedoms, or some money vs others freedoms. Either way: Unethical and arguing in bad faith. Thx for the confirmation.

It's both. I fear global thermonuclear war, and I am tired of my government wasting my tax dollars!

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Last post you claimed its your fears, now you claim its the "money pit". Your fear vs others freedoms, or some money vs others freedoms. Either way: Unethical and arguing in bad faith. Thx for the confirmation.

It's both.  I fear global thermonuclear war, and I am tired of my government wasting my tax dollars!

Four tenths of one percent. That’s how much tax revenue has been spent on military assistance to Ukraine. It’s like having $5.00 and giving a friend two pennies.

Considering that the security of Europe is at stake, it seems like a bargain.

Boru

[Ranjr]

Taxpayers don't pay for this or that thing that we're for or against.  We service debt.  The things we may have been for or against happened decades ago.

[Peebothuhlu]

I think that war is stupid.  Period.  In explaining behavior, I am trying to understand it, and am certainly NOT trying to justify it.

It's kind of like discussing Manifest Destiny, the belief that the United States of America was destined by Almighty God to expand from one great ocean to the other, a belief which, of course, contributed to the abhorrent treatment of the indigenous peoples who were already living here.  Simply discussing Manifest Destiny does not cause one to become a theist.  Trying to make sense of Putin's "reasons" does not make me a Russian apologist.

As for me, I believe in One World Government.  I don't care if the idea is stupid (it's not) or impractical (it's  not).  In my scheme all national boundaries that existed prior to Russia's invasion (indeed, maybe even a tad earlier than that) would be frozen.  A World parliament with a World Prime Minister would be chosen, along with a new World constitution & Universal Declaration of Human Rights & Liberties, and a World Court which would have jurisdiction over anyone & everyone.  All militaries would be abolished, along with all nuclear weapons.  One multinational police force would be created to deal with any local unrest, subject to the Court & Parliament.

Uhm..... yeah. That's a nice dream.

Human nature and, well um, other things being what they are.

Of course, you're talking about a Parlimentary system OBVIOUSLY based on the bonza Australian model, then?

Cheers.

Not at work.  

[The Grand Nudger]

So, NOT because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, then?

Boru

That was probably a secondary reason, but, I think that the principle reason was land.  Again, if Ukraine (in whole or in part) joins NATO, Putin could simply line the border with thermonuclear weapons and blow them to bits if war ever broke out.

Putin can't knock ukraine over, he's not lining anything with nukes. Your worst fears are beyond his ability, if that helps. Standard dictator problem. Only as good, or as bad-as.