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Islam owns atheism with a single verse
RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
Is it true that conceivability and logical possibility are identical? If it is, and I can conceive of a god not existing...which I can, then god does not exist.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
(July 15, 2023 at 10:44 am)Loaded dice Wrote:
(July 15, 2023 at 10:37 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Except of course the proof of there being no greatest prime is a proof of a positive, there there are an infinite number of primes.      

Proving that Non-P is true (negative assertion) is equivalent to proving P is false, so all provable statements in mathematics can be reformulated to be negative assertions. And needless to say that the simplest definition of an infinite set is a negative assertion : a set that is not finite.

Spare us your lack of understanding of mathematics, and go back to hiding.

ROFLOL ROFLOL  Who is this us?   the tenured faculties of the august institute for the advancement of logic via watching cartoons?
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RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
(July 15, 2023 at 10:46 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is it true that conceivability and logical possibility are identical?  If it is, and I can conceive of a god not existing...which I can, then god does not exist.

To be fair, this is an extremely contentious question in philosophy:
https://consc.net/papers/conceivability.html (TL;DR)

Philosophical intricacies notwithstanding, I am inclined to that they are identical because, otherwise, it's not clear that we can prove anything to be logically possible. I have a really hard time imagining a triangle with four sides, surely that must largely be due to it being logically impossible..?

I can conceive of myself not existing in this world, but is my non existence logically possible ? For all intents and purposes, yes. But then some might argue that the past is necessary, and so my birth, being part of the past, is logically necessary. Regardless of that, it's still implausible to say that my non-existence is logically impossible.
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RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
(July 15, 2023 at 7:51 am)Loaded dice Wrote:
(July 14, 2023 at 6:42 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: "Was always" is a temporal concept. Fail. 

Again, there are many conceivable definitions of time that go beyond the physical time that we're familiar with. It's just that you have a very, very limited imagination.

(July 14, 2023 at 6:42 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: That exactly the same problem. Thanks for making my point for me. 

Yeah, it's the same problem, you gravely lack imagination.

(July 14, 2023 at 6:42 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: You just contradicted yourself. 
If god didn't create Reality, then where did it come from ?and your god is no god if it didn't create Reality, and is First Cause of nothing. 

Reality is a necessary concept, which means all there is, just like 2 or 3, and God didn't create the concept of 2 things or 3 things, these are simply labels. I guess you're simply not equipped for this.
Again, reality includes God, so God creating reality would be logically impossible, so, clearly all the garbage you're writing here isn't at all a threat to theism.

Ridiculous.

Reality is a necessary concept, which means all there is, just like 2 or 3, and FSM didn't create the concept of 2 things or 3 things, these are simply labels. I guess you're simply not equipped for this.

Again, reality includes FSM, so FSM creating reality wouldn't be logically impossible, so, clearly all the garbage you're writing here isn't at all a threat to atheism, Pastafarianism or anything else.

Ridiculous

RAmen
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming"  -The Prophet Boiardi-

      Conservative trigger warning.
[Image: s-l640.jpg]
                                                                                         
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RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
(July 15, 2023 at 10:56 am)Loaded dice Wrote:
(July 15, 2023 at 10:46 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is it true that conceivability and logical possibility are identical?  If it is, and I can conceive of a god not existing...which I can, then god does not exist.

To be fair, this is an extremely contentious question in philosophy:
https://consc.net/papers/conceivability.html (TL;DR)

Philosophical intricacies notwithstanding, I am inclined to that they are identical because, otherwise, it's not clear that we can prove anything to be logically possible. I have a really hard time imagining a triangle with four sides, surely that must largely be due to it being logically impossible..?

I can conceive of myself not existing in this world, but is my non existence logically possible ? For all intents and purposes, yes. But then some might argue that the past is necessary, and so my birth, being part of the past, is logically necessary. Regardless of that, it's still implausible to say that my non-existence is logically impossible.

Then god as traditionally defined™ does not exist.  QED.

As for the failures of your own imagination - sounds like a you problem? Or are you going to make that gods problem too?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
(July 15, 2023 at 11:00 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Then god as traditionally defined™ does not exist.  QED.

Assuming God isn't a necessary being, it only follows that it's possible that God doesn't exist, not that his non existence is the actual state of affairs.
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RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
ROFLOL ROFLOL Is there anything that can still be conceived while respecting dictates imposed by greater knowledge that is in principle not conceivable from a position of lesser knowledge?

So it seems scope of conceivability is inversely proportional to the scope of knowledgeability, no?
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RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
(July 15, 2023 at 11:02 am)Loaded dice Wrote:
(July 15, 2023 at 11:00 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Then god as traditionally defined™ does not exist.  QED.

Assuming God isn't a necessary being, it only follows that it's possible that God doesn't exist, not that his non existence is the actual state of affairs.

Assuming FSM isn't a necessary being, it only follows that it's possible that FSM doesn't exist, not that his non existence is the actual state of affairs.
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming"  -The Prophet Boiardi-

      Conservative trigger warning.
[Image: s-l640.jpg]
                                                                                         
Reply
RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
(July 15, 2023 at 11:02 am)Loaded dice Wrote:
(July 15, 2023 at 11:00 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Then god as traditionally defined™ does not exist.  QED.

Assuming God isn't a necessary being, it only follows that it's possible that God doesn't exist, not that his non existence is the actual state of affairs.

There's no assuming there.  It's a straight up consequence of your beliefs about concievability and logical possibility.

God as traditionally defined ™ is a necessary being, a being that cannot fail to exist.  If my being able to conceive of god not existing makes it a logical possibility that god does not exist, then god is..in fact...not a thing that cannot fail to exist.

God, in short, is not god.  You see the trouble, I assume.

What you don't see, is that the wound is entirely self inflicted.  You think that you're arguing with me, but you're merely arguing with your own discordant beliefs.  That's always frustrated me, here on the boards..but also in life. Still..I think there's a genuine kernel of belief under all of that. You might believe in something other than god as traditionally defined. A creature like us, that could fail to exist, but doesn't. Djinn. Great Fairies. The Grand Nudger. ETC.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Islam owns atheism with a single verse
Ooh, I didn't see that coming. That's some top-notch thinking, nudge.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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