Russia and Ukraine

[Thumpalumpacus]

The idea that Russia's "military might" is a fearsome juggernaut rather than a paper tiger is belied by the fact that they're buying rockets and artillery from DPRK, of all suppliers.

They may still win this war. They may still lose this war. Bear in mind that World War I was stalemated until it wasn't, and that once the Eastern Front broke open not only did the Russian army collapse, the Russians sued for peace, and the Tsar's government was
overthrown and then eliminated. All of that was unforeseeable as late as February 1917.

[Jackalope]

This Russian army is certainly a shadow of the one I trained to fight in the 80's.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The idea that Russia's "military might" is a fearsome juggernaut rather than a paper tiger is belied by the fact that they're buying rockets and artillery from DPRK, of all suppliers.

They may still win this war. They may still lose this war. Bear in mind that World War I was stalemated until it wasn't, and that once the Eastern Front broke open not only did the Russian army collapse, the Russians sued for peace, and the Tsar's government was
overthrown and then eliminated. All of that was unforeseeable as late as February 1917.

By every metric that matters, Russia has already lost this war. Massive loss of life and equipment, shit morale, a laughing stock on the world stage, and (most importantly) failure to achieve any of the stated objectives.

Russia could take the whole country, install a puppet government in Kyiv, and they will STILL have lost the war. At this point, all they can do is win battles.

Boru

[Thumpalumpacus]

Russia could take the whole country, install a puppet government in Kyiv, and they will STILL have lost the war. At this point, all they can do is win battles.

Boru

And even if they take the entire country, they will be facing an insurrection fueled by their atrocities. We saw what happened after Afghanistan.

[Leonardo17]

Where did you come up with that meaning for SOB?

   The original meaning is a sexual thing of course: Kuon in ancient Greek means a female dog too. What it really means is an AH beyond repair. Someone who is “bad”. Meaning completely selfish and arrogant, unable of seeing value in things other than himself. In most languages SOB is the top of the top. That person is not a typical jerk or AH but someone who is really beyond that. (Someone builds a personal palace of 200,000 square feet with state funds in are private property are of 180 acres which has vineyard, wine production facilities, a private church an underground ice hockey stadium and many other luxury items while dissidents die in the arctic, citizens are fleeing the countries and those who can’t are getting killed in Ukraine).
 
   Is this a bad definition?

Grandnudger:

It can be both, Leo. A thief and a madman, judging by this particular smash and grab attempt.

I'd love to see that army of 1.3 million. They're having enough trouble training and equipping the army they have. Gonna be a whole lot of stick and stone brigades. I'm not sure what you would take as evidence that china has supported russia if chinese mortar shells found in the vicinity of dead ukranians doesn't count. Russia can't make enough tanks, russia cant make enough ammo, russia cant train enough soldiers, and russia couldn't feed or clothe them or keep them operational even if they could build or train them.

-and that, is why they wanted a three day war. We're now in year three of putins three day invasion, he remains a master strategist.

I do not entirely disagree with that. But it seems like they are learning from their mistakes and they are reforming and regrouping. Some people do as far as saying that Ukraine might have to surrender if Western aid was to stop:

 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-cant-...13024.html
 
And even with continued with Western support, we do not know for sure if they will really be able to recover the territories that were occupied by Russia either. So I am  beginning to think that perhaps that might not be possible at all. Yes, Ukranians are more motivated and better equipped than Russians but they are still human beings. It’s hard. 2 years into an a war of attrition is not an east task for anyone.

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   The only problem here is that there is no negotiation with Putin. In his mind this is just another Grozny or another Syria. The only thing he can do is win. Why?
 
- Alexei Navalny explains it in the video that was published the day he was arrested after having landed in Moscow: Oligarchs are people like you and me. They also want more all the time. They and their entourage will keep needing more private mansions, special breed ponies, ultra-luxurious yachts, Palaces inside several acres of no-entry zones, private jets, and collections of automobiles that are derived from F-1 tracks etc. So wherever that happens, that country will not be able to develop its economy nor will it be able to serve its people.
 
What that country needs is a second Bolshevik revolution

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So this is a no choice situation. This is definitely not easy after three decades of peaceful coexistence between all major powers.

 
I would agree with any peace plan (including leaving Crimea + Donbass + other occupied areas to Russia) but the man is a gangster. He is not to be trusted: The week before the invasion he probably repeated 20 times that he won’t attack Ukraine. How do you deal with that kind of person?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Where did you come up with that meaning for SOB?

   The original meaning is a sexual thing of course: Kuon in ancient Greek means a female dog too. What it really means is an AH beyond repair. Someone who is “bad”. Meaning completely selfish and arrogant, unable of seeing value in things other than himself. In most languages SOB is the top of the top. That person is not a typical jerk or AH but someone who is really beyond that. (Someone builds a personal palace of 200,000 square feet with state funds in are private property are of 180 acres which has vineyard, wine production facilities, a private church an underground ice hockey stadium and many other luxury items while dissidents die in the arctic, citizens are fleeing the countries and those who can’t are getting killed in Ukraine).
 
   Is this a bad definition?

SoB may also be said of someone who's tough, in which case it's often a grudging compliment.

[The Grand Nudger]

They're not two years into a war of attrition Leo. It's been three since the full scale invasion and ten since the war began for them. I think it's amazing that ten years into this conflict, when they've finally managed to grind russia down to a nub, people are telling them to quit now. The whole bit is absurd, and you hit the nail right on the head anyway. Putin isn't going to honor any agreement he makes, so why make one?

[Thumpalumpacus]

They're not two years into a war of attrition Leo.  It's been three since the full scale invasion and ten since the war began for them.  I think it's amazing that ten years into this conflict, when they've finally managed to grind russia down to a nub, people are telling them to quit now.  The whole bit is absurd, and you hit the nail right on the head anyway.  Putin isn't going to honor any agreement he makes, so why make one?

Actually it has only been two years since the full invasion, which happened 24 Feb 2022.

[The Grand Nudger]

Like clockwork. The howls for surrender reach a fevered pitch...and russia loses another a-50, another IL-22, and the largest steel plant in russia is razed by ukranian drones.

[Leonardo17]

Let me share some numbers because it helps us to see things with more perspective.
 
Zelensky said recently the numbers of Ukrainians killed in action was 31,000. According to international sources that number is closer to 70,000 (= the number of US soldiers killed during the 20 year Vietnam war [Total death of US + allies is 300,000]).
 
He also said that 180,000 Russian soldiers were killed. Again, international sources say this number is closer to 120,000. So that’s 2 for each Ukrainian soldier.
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/zelenskiy-say...42146.html
 
There is a Ukrainian propaganda machine as well as a Russian propaganda machine. While the Russian propaganda machine works to create and maintain an alternate reality of some sort, the Ukrainian propaganda machine likes to amplify existing realities and that’s rather normal