New Way of practicing Old Beliefs

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Is that fundamentally different from any other religion?

Good point!

So let's take (temporarily, tentatively) the definition of spirituality to be "a value system which emphasizes first and foremost efforts to be more grateful, appreciative, aware of and connected to other life in the world, and humble about one's place in the world." 

Then any religion (or ideology, or political commitment) which met this definition would be spiritual. 

And we all know that sometimes religion does the opposite. It has been known to make people less connected to people unlike themselves, and prouder about their own group. So when it does those things it's unspiritual and bad. Ideologies and passionately-held commitments can have such effects. 

But I recognize that I've worked up a definition of spirituality here which is different from how many people use the word.

I’m delighted that you recognize that. I shall henceforth define ‘elephant’ to mean ‘a particle  produced when the pit of a coffee cherry is roasted and ground.’

I have two jars of elephants in my pantry.

Boru

[HappySkeptic]

Is that fundamentally different from any other religion?

Good point!

So let's take (temporarily, tentatively) the definition of spirituality to be "a value system which emphasizes first and foremost efforts to be more grateful, appreciative, aware of and connected to other life in the world, and humble about one's place in the world." 

Then any religion (or ideology, or political commitment) which met this definition would be spiritual. 

And we all know that sometimes religion does the opposite. It has been known to make people less connected to people unlike themselves, and prouder about their own group. So when it does those things it's unspiritual and bad. Ideologies and passionately-held commitments can have such effects. 

But I recognize that I've worked up a definition of spirituality here which is different from how many people use the word.

As a UU, I'm not against re-interpreting religious language in a more secular sense.  

Many UUs don't like the word "spiritual" because it implies the existence of a supernatural spirit (or a supernatural spiritual realm).

I think most of us have gotten over it.  The spiritual, even in theism, is about connection.  They just imagine an other-worldly connection where we posit no such thing.

[Belacqua]

As a UU, I'm not against re-interpreting religious language in a more secular sense.  

Many UUs don't like the word "spiritual" because it implies the existence of a supernatural spirit (or a supernatural spiritual realm).

I think most of us have gotten over it.  The spiritual, even in theism, is about connection.  They just imagine an other-worldly connection where we posit no such thing.

Yes, that makes sense to me.

I think I got too focussed on the word "spirituality" yesterday. You're right that the connotations it has for a lot of people will distract from the kind of thing I was talking about. 

"Connection" is a good focus, I think. To lean toward those thoughts and activities which put us into the good part of the world, whether that's good groups of people, or nature, or the arts. 

The opposite would then be all those things intended to alienate, to divide, to draw one's attention to the bad but distracting.

[Leonardo17]

Belaqua:

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You have this mind-based philosophical approach to spiritual issues. It reminds me of what typical Christian or other Abrahamic scholars did for centuries. Contently debating for ages but never getting to anything of substance.
 
Spirituality does not really work like that. I do some reading to understand the basics. Then I meditate more or do some of the practice to allow “real understanding” to occur.
 
That’s another important point too. This is not philosophy. It may look philosophical. But the whole “happening” is actually happening beyond the limit of the mind (or Budhi as eastern religions are calling it).
 

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On scientology:

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I don’t really like this type of approaches. People can lose money + years of their lives in such empty endeavors.
 
Also: It’s not that important. There is nothing wrong with being “unspiritual” if it is not a part of your life program

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Grand Nudger:

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“"Bad spirituality" is still spirituality. The politics of religion becoming plainly apparent in that list. That's one possible value system we might find, but there are more..and alot of them, even in the development of what we might consider to be paragon candidate ideologies...arose from martial cultures and were very much used as pretext for eliminating barbarous tribes. Such was the case for jainism, for example.”
 
- I don’t agree with that. There are all sorts of bigots and charlatans in all spiritual tradition. Yet, the majority of us are still managing to end up in a spiritual system that is more or less “correct”. It is the the duty of each and every one of us to try to find something that resonates with reason and is still nourishing for our soul.
See, the moment I say “soul” I’m out of the realm of philosophy. The meaning of that phrase is that “it has to fell right for us inside” (that’s not a philosophical kind of definition at all )

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- The main focus of spiritual thought is this:
 
We don’t really know what is present in the emptiness in front of us. Yes there is air, and molecules, and atoms but what is it that fills the empty space between protons? Modern Physics always gets weirder and weirder as you deal with smaller bub-atomic particles and there are all sorts of not so easy to understand theories on the true nature of the universe.
 
What we do here is that we ask some of the deeper questions to ourselves (by allowing the possibility of religious scripture being something other than works of fictions designed to manipulate unawares people).
 
And the whole thing is set to remain mainly theoretical until you reach the level of an enlightened master (and experience these phenomenon called God Directly). Hence the need for humility and willingness to have a discussion on other possibilities

[Angrboda]

[The Grand Nudger]

“"Bad spirituality" is still spirituality. The politics of religion becoming plainly apparent in that list. That's one possible value system we might find, but there are more..and alot of them, even in the development of what we might consider to be paragon candidate ideologies...arose from martial cultures and were very much used as pretext for eliminating barbarous tribes. Such was the case for jainism, for example.”

 
- I don’t agree with that.

You can disagree if you like but it's a fact of history? That's kind of the point with respect to the politics of religion. We can disagree with any given idea about spirituality and it's contents but it does contain them and it has found it's expression in those ways. A pacifist disagrees with a martial spirituality. An easy example. An exclusivist disagrees with an inclusivist..a more subtle example. These disagreements are very often not in or over detail - all of the same actors and forces and mechanisms are present across competing spiritualities. They're more often over possession and principal. Like your disagreement.

There are all sorts of bigots and charlatans in all spiritual tradition. Yet, the majority of us are still managing to end up in a spiritual system that is more or less “correct”. It is the the duty of each and every one of us to try to find something that resonates with reason and is still nourishing for our soul.
See, the moment I say “soul” I’m out of the realm of philosophy. The meaning of that phrase is that “it has to fell right for us inside” (that’s not a philosophical kind of definition at all )

Not really.  You're talking about existentialism there, for example.

[The Grand Nudger]

Let's try something.  

The five nations held that there was an opposite to killing and it was gifting.  If you felt guilt for someone's death you gifted to their family, to the community.  The best gift being a replacement for the dead family member.  Thus, warriors felt compelled and incentivized by martial virtue and honor as well as material prosperity to capture rather than kill their enemies.  There was all of the domestic morbidity of the day to cover for as well.  A captured enemy inherited the name, titles, possessions, and duties of the deceased.  The other option was being boiled alive as a gift to the gods.

Is that "bad" spirituality?  Were they not doing it right?  How, exactly?

[Silver]

Just attach the word "new" in front of it.

I.E.: New Age.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's a borrowed ladder. They don't want to do all the work actively misinforming a populace as their predecessor traditions did....but they do want the credence that came from it. They're not what they say they are. OTOH, they're luckily placed in time. The frameworks they're all built on didn't have mass media to disseminate their manifestos.