Russia and Ukraine

[Leonardo17]

The Foreign Legion:
 

---

 
The Russian military court is sending a captured British volunteer soldier to 20 year in a work camp (And I don’t believe UK authorities have anything to say about that).
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvge8dnrge5o
 
So you don’t go to war just like that. In fact some of these volunteers are overtly schizophrenic. They cannot adapt to the military lifestyle and end up being deserters or surrendering to the Russian military.
 
/All that I am saying here should help us understand what a huge sacrifice all real soldiers (from all nations) are usually making. In many cases they are like a school of bravery and courage for all of us to learn (which does not change the truth that all wars / unless they are defencive wars / are acts of murder and should not be happening in a truly civilized world at all)
 
But yes. Some people know very well what they are doing (I’m talking about individuals with advanced military training, experience and knowledge). These are the ones for whom this thing has probably been designed for.
 

---

 
Bel’s thinking on the NATO issue:
 

---

 
All of this debate is showing us that Russia sees Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Central Asian countries, Azerbaijan and Armenia as part of its own zone of influence.
 
If NATO is such an antagonistic force that threatens other nations than why doesn’t (for instance) Romania object to the inclusion of Ukraine into this alliance?
 
Ukraine is a sovereign nation right? So they are free to join the BRICS and/or the EU and/or NATO if they want to.
 
See what’s happening in Georgia. See this man is ruling Georgia and is the person who controls the “Georgian Dream” Party:
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidzina_Ivanishvili
 
He went to Moscow as a nobody in the 90’s. Then he received funds in Moscow and became the Number1 oligarch in Georgia. He also happens to be the best friend of this dude:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Georgia
 
This dude is elected every time despite the fact that Georgians have been manifesting in front of the Parliament in Tbilisi since 2-3 years if I am correct
 
- So first they try to put their surrogate on top of a country. İf it doesn’t work they attack militarily. So they don’t want anyone to Join NATO because they are not strong enough to take on a huge alliance like NATO.
(Plain and simple)
 
- No I understand your “Turning Old Soviet Republics into a missile launch pad” narrative.
 
Think of it this way: “The West” is no longer your enemy (unless you yourself have social engineering projects involving the Russian people and need the West as an enemy).
 
Europe wants your natural gas, all of the world wants your oil. US and British companies are probably (as we speak) ready to sign deal on metal and rare earth extraction. All Western companies (including Elon Musk) probably want to create jobs in Russia in order to enter the Russian market before Chinese competitors.
 
You made them into the Great Satan. You adopted this “anti-western” posture. And the NATO lie is a part of that lie actually. This is populism at work, messing everything up as if we didn’t have enough problems already.
 

---

 
On Chechnya:
 

---

 
I don’t know that much but just like the state of Israel, somethings in the Russian government apparatus seems to have been broken since the very beginning. There are instances in which the state apparatus is simply not good enough for its people meaning that this type of state is simply evil and kills those with the most love for their country of origin (like Alexei Navalny and other people from his political circle).
 
And that’s why even Finland and Sweden (who were neutral even in the cold war) asked to join NATO.
 
Yes Power is a thing if you are nation in this world but it is not / cannot be the only thing (and this one goes to Netanyahu and his Trumpist Gazan Riviera plan too). This is not how it works. This is evil. And if that’s your way of reasoning, then you are evil too.
 

---

 
Some Personal Points on the Latest in Europe:
 
- Do you see how fast they are mobilizing?
 
Even at the beginning of this war Europe was reluctant to increase defense spending now they approved an 800 million Euro defense spending plan and France is probably extending its Nuclear Umbrella to a number of European states (And the far-rights is shutting up, not daring to say anything of substance against that).
 
My point is that: This is how it is done. As Greta Thunberg mentions it in “The Climate Book”. There has to be this feeling of urgency to get things moving in the right direction in a short time span. It has been done during Covid. It happened in 1939. It’s happening right now in Europe. It is still possible to slove the climate crisis in a similar manner right now. 

[Thumpalumpacus]

A video discussion going into the roots of this war, with opinions on current events. Long watch, get your popcorn:

[Ravenshire]

It's also worth noting that Bel's two prophecies were written in the immediate aftermath of Russia seizing Crimea.  Ignoring the context to suggest they were speaking to future events is misleading.  Both were addressing the then present.

But who cares enough about what Kissinger and Pilger wrote in 2014 to dig this up now?  Russian propagandists.

Kissinger was a Russian propagandist. 

OK.

You really don't read for comprehension, do you?

[TheWhiteMarten]

How often has NATO invaded other countries?
How often has (Soviet) Russia invaded other countries?

If you answer does not consist of exactly two numbers, it's an evasion. I put a paycheck on the latter? Any takers?

Quite often; Korea/Egypt in the 50s, Vietnam throughout the mid-century, the Falklands in the 80s, the Gulf in the 90s, half the third world during GWoT...
Also quite often, and generally with an intent to more permanently expand their borders.

[TheWhiteMarten]

There are several key factors - at the very least would be geography and logistics. That said, I doubt it helped.

tl;dr - Baltics-to-Moscow = like fighting through Louisiana; Kharkiv-to-Moscow like fighting through eastern Colorado.

The closest major population center of the Baltics is roughly 535 miles away from Moscow and 1000 miles away from the industrial heartland of Russia; inbetween is one of Europe's largest chain of wetlands, marshes and swamps with direct access to only 1 major highway to the capital - outside of that it's almost entirely mud roads not fit for heavy machinery. Additionally there is a low amount of commercial traffic in the region and few population centers, making it ideal for supremacy of sea and sky  - not for staging a full expeditionary force on Moscow.

Adding Ukraine to NATO only reduces the distance to Moscow by about 100 miles; major industrial targets are now within 670 miles, with Tula - a major arms production center - within 300 miles of Kharkiv. In comparison to the border with the Baltics being a natural deterrent mixed with Belarus, the border between Russia and Ukraine is a well developed region - and one suited for military travel, as thousands of years of roving warbands in the region have bloodily proven.  

This not only opens the way for arial supremacy for NATO within Russia's own airspace, but also adds 3 more direct highways to the Russian capital and several more to the industrial regions; this surrounds Moscow on 2 fronts and allows the possibility of an easy encirclement to the east - stripped of any access to the oceans, deprived of it's productive and oil reserves, and backed against a frozen tundra.

This is not a "Cuba is close to America" issue - this is a, "Russian bases in Ontario" level of provocation from their perspective, agree with it or not.

Try really hard to understand this: preventing illegal Russian expansion is not the same as attacking Russia.

Boru

Never claimed it was.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Quite often; Korea/Egypt in the 50s, Vietnam throughout the mid-century, the Falklands in the 80s, the Gulf in the 90s, half the third world during GWoT...

1) North Korea invaded South Korea in 1950. The United Nations, not NATO, responded to the provoking invasion. Fail #1.

2) The Anglo-French attack upon Egypt was not a NATO operation, and indeed was opposed by America. Fail #2.

3) The Falklands war war provoked by an Argentinian invasion of said islands, and was again not a NATO operation, much less "invasion". Fail #3.

4) Desert Storm was a response to Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. While NATO resources were used (indeed, being stationed in Spain with a bomb wing I operated under NATO orders, calling that an "invasion of Iraq" while ignoring their invasion of Kuwait is tawdry and dishonest. And more to the point, that was a UN-sanctioned counteraction that was supported by non-NATO nations such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Fail #4.

5) Your point about NATO's involvement in GWOT is half-true. We did invoke Article 5 (look it up), for Afghanistan, and Europe pointedly stood up for us in attacking Afghanistan, the nation harboring our attackers. Would you criticize them for doing that? The Europeans actually followed through on their commitment, unlike your boy Trump, and you deign to chastise them? Fail 4.5.

As for our Iraqi, we did not invoke NATO. The UK and a couple of other countries helped, but calling that a "NATO action" is horseshit.

I suggest you inform yourself better and quit trying to spread manure.

Also quite often, and generally with an intent to more permanently expand their borders.

NATO is not a nation. It doesn't have "borders". It is a defense alliance to dissuade bad actors from fucking with us. Every "example" you've offered has been a defensive operation, yet you label them offensives. I wonder who you really support.

Well, no, I don't, really. I already have a solid idea, between your echoing Russian propaganda and your mistelling of history. I'm sure you don't give a shit about free people, and you probably wouldn't know your ass from third-base about freedom.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Try really hard to understand this: preventing illegal Russian expansion is not the same as attacking Russia.

Boru

Never claimed it was.

So then you think that if someone stands too close to you on the subway, attacking them is okay even if they don't attack you?

Because you're essentially justifying Russia's invasion of Ukraine by invoking NATO's peaceful feelers to that country.

[The Grand Nudger]

Putin sold russians on a smash and grab in ukraine through revisionist history lessons and the potential for looting, with the burden being carried by prisoners and ethnic people operating ancient and chopped soviet surplus. This is why there's a war in ukraine.

I assume that even a maga nut can acknowledge the simple reality of the russo-ukranian war and still find some other batshit reason to be against our ukranian partnership. That's why it amazes me that they waste their time laundering rascist propaganda as though they actually gave a shit about any of it. As though, if it turned out they were wrong about all that... it would change their minds...and they'd support ukraine. Damned NATO. If it weren't for NATO being the bad guy and doing encroachment crimes, they could support ukraine!

[Thumpalumpacus]

Putin sold russians on a smash and grab in ukraine through revisionist history lessons and the potential for looting, with the burden being carried by prisoners and ethnic people operating ancient and chopped soviet surplus.  This is why there's a war in ukraine.  

I assume that even a maga nut can acknowledge the simple reality of the russo-ukranian war and still find some other batshit reason to be against our ukranian partnership.  That's why it amazes me that they waste their time laundering rascist propaganda as though they actually gave a shit about any of it.  As though, if it turned out they were wrong about all that... it would change their minds...and they'd support ukraine.  Damned NATO.  If it weren't for NATO being the bad guy and doing encroachment crimes, they could support ukraine!

Dude, they don't understand the thirst for freedom, the desire to not be bombed every night.

They won't change their mind until it hits them in the face. Like the local Walmart catches a cruise-missile or something. Good golly, they'll be pissed-off then.

[Deesse23]

How often has NATO invaded other countries?
How often has (Soviet) Russia invaded other countries?

If you answer does not consist of exactly two numbers, it's an evasion. I put a paycheck on the latter? Any takers?

Quite often; Korea/Egypt in the 50s, Vietnam throughout the mid-century, the Falklands in the 80s, the Gulf in the 90s, half the third world during GWoT...
Also quite often, and generally with an intent to more permanently expand their borders.

Nato invaded Korea?
Nato invaded Egypt?
Nato invaded Vietnam?
Nato invaded the Falklands?
Nato invaded Gulf states?

Really? Do you REALLY rather pretend to be this dense than to be honest? Good no one took my bet, it seems.