(August 13, 2025 at 4:40 am)Deesse23 Wrote: I am shocked, but not too much surprised.
Firstoff i find it .....interesting how similar the rise of fascism is, although the time and situation is so different from Europe in the 1920, including the notion by parts of the population that its going to be a "passing storm". Damn, i bet historians are having a field day these days. So much to observe, so much to directly learn. I am not much surprised that so few americans dont act. They are well off, domestically as well as much as foreign relations. The richest country in the world, the most powerful military in the world....all that jazz. Of course a lot of people have no fear...why would they? Nothing ever has gone wrong substantially, especially if you are part of this particular privileged minority that ruled for the past 200 years.
History repeats. World watches while genocide happens, fascist regimes are on the rise, international organization are both powerless and hypocritical which just fuels criticism that various far righters pour on them.
Quote:If you ever wondered (and we know people did all the time during the past 100y) how a nation like Germany could slip into fascism, just look at the USA. I would estimate that 3/4 of all of the individual psychology, social dynamics, etc. from back then does apply to now, minus of course the political and economic situation of the country at hand. Those seem to play not a role at all. Thats the part i guess all the historians are currently surprised about (i am!). After all we were told that it was this what led Germany to become fascist.
It's not that economy does not play a role. What matters is a difference is between official sources and reality of people lives. I give you an example -
Poland is world 20th economy by GDP but I sure as shit don't feel it as
in 2023, over 17 million people—up from 15.4 million in 2022—were struggling to cover essential costs such as access to the internet, dental care, buying books for their children or occasional entertainment. Economy do play a role a big one I would say but only when viewed through lens of real experience not data showing how wealthy country is in theory. That said I agree that root of the problem is psychological, political and social. It's
anomie that late stage capitalism either promotes or produces whether voluntarily or not.
Quote:This really seems to be all about human psychology (individual and group related), and much less about actual political and economic situation. I would love to have some professional historian elaborate on this. Anyone maybe has a link or two? I am sure this is discussed amongst historians already.
It may not exactly be what you're looking for but here is fragment from Enzo Traverso book
The New Faces of Fascism:
In contrast to Mosse’s work, Zeev Sternhell paints a very different
landscape. Belonging to a tradition of the history of ideas canonized by
Arthur Lovejoy, this Israeli historian sees the essence of fascism in the
counter-Enlightenment. In his words, fascism was ‘a total rejection of the
vision of man and society elaborated from Hobbes to Kant, from the
English Revolution of the seventeenth century to the American and
French Revolutions’.50 In his last book, Sternhell describes fascism as ‘an
exacerbated form of the tradition of counter-Enlightenment’. With
fascism, he adds, ‘Europe created for the first time a set of political
movements and regimes whose project was nothing but the destruction
of Enlightenment culture.’51 But Sternhell’s tendency to reduce fascism
to an ideological archetype and to identify its Platonic kernel in an
intellectual process isolated from its social context appears just as
questionable as Mosse’s approach, albeit for different reasons. Sternhell’s
method is not only indifferent to cultural history (the analysis of fascist
myths and symbols) but also, in a normative way, to all of social
history’s contributions. As he explains, countering his critics, fascism had
‘deep intellectual roots’, and ‘social history is not very useful’ for
understanding it. [Enzo Traverso, New Faces of Fascism, p.88]
There is also Jason Stanley take from
How Fascism Works:
The most telling symptom of fascist politics is division. It aims to separate
a population into an “us” and a “them.” Many kinds of political
movements involve such a division; for example, Communist politics
weaponizes class divisions. Giving a description of fascist politics involves
describing the very specific way that fascist politics distinguishes “us”
from “them,” appealing to ethnic, religious, or racial distinctions, and
using this division to shape ideology and, ultimately, policy. Every
mechanism of fascist politics works to create or solidify this distinction.
Fascist politicians justify their ideas by breaking down a common
sense of history in creating a mythic past to support their vision for the
present. They rewrite the population’s shared understanding of reality by
twisting the language of ideals through propaganda and promoting anti-
intellectualism, attacking universities and educational systems that might
challenge their ideas. Eventually, with these techniques, fascist politics
creates a state of unreality, in which conspiracy theories and fake news
replace reasoned debate.
As the common understanding of reality crumbles, fascist politics
makes room for dangerous and false beliefs to take root. First, fascist
ideology seeks to naturalize group difference, thereby giving the
appearance of natural, scientific support for a hierarchy of human worth.
When social rankings and divisions solidify, fear fills in for understanding
between groups. Any progress for a minority group stokes feelings of
victimhood among the dominant population. Law and order politics has
mass appeal, casting “us” as lawful citizens and “them,” by contrast, as
lawless criminals whose behavior poses an existential threat to the
manhood of the nation. Sexual anxiety is also typical of fascist politics as
the patriarchal hierarchy is threatened by growing gender equity.
As the fear of “them” grows, “we” come to represent everything
virtuous. “We” live in the rural heartland, where the pure values and
traditions of the nation still miraculously exist despite the threat of
cosmopolitanism from the nation’s cities, alongside the hordes of
minorities who live there, emboldened by liberal tolerance. “We” are
hardworking, and have earned our pride of place by struggle and merit.
“They” are lazy, surviving off the goods we produce by exploiting the
generosity of our welfare systems, or employing corrupt institutions, such
as labor unions, meant to separate honest, hardworking citizens from
their pay. “We” are makers; “they” are takers.[ Jason Stanley, How Fascism Works, p.9-10]
Quote:Having said this, i am looking at the "270 to win" polls and stats, and it seems clear (once again, just like in the early 1930s), that there will be no way back for the US, but the speed rather increasing. Just like in the 1930s, (too) many people seem to be drunk by fascism, once its entrenched, they actually seem to like it.....until its themselves who get picked up by ICE-stapo, of course.
It's a global problem. Same thing is happening in Poland with fascist becoming president, holocaust denier gathering support or prime minister suspending constitution. It's in my view a shameful secret that many genuinely enjoy fascism but simply cry when they're called on it. It was defeated militarily as thoroughly as it was possible but it never got away - it was simply in bad taste to proscribe to this idiotic and abhorrent idea.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
Mikhail Bakunin.
