Santorant: Birth Control is WHAT?

[reverendjeremiah]

Last I checked, Ron Paul was all those things too and was an actual Republican (in third place as well).

Yes and he is an intelligent man. People can say what they want about him, but look at who he is running with... Frothy man, and Rich Mormon guy who makes 10K bets like its a 20 dollar bet. These guys are idiots and should not run a country ever, and we ALL know this.
When you ask candidates what they would be doing on a Saturday night instead of running for president, all the shills say "watching the football champion ships" Ron Paul says... "Reading economic textbooks" That's the guy you want for president.

We are intellectuals here, we can see past the religious bs, so why can't we apply our critical thinking to politics, its all the same thinking mechanisms.

Obama? Yeah I drank it all up, I voted, donated, thought the guy was "real" thought he was going to do all these things. That's the price I pay for getting into politics during the 2008 election. Sure we can say the republicans have been hindering what he wants to do, but I don't see him calling them out or actually fighting to change anything. I see status quo people, and you do to. I still see a country without healthcare, a country who murders and invades sovereign counties, and can now detain US citizens, and are trying to also shut down our internet communication. SOPA, NDAA. Who is still run by the 1%, banks still rule.

There is a right left paradigm going on in this country, can't we see they both strive for the same basic things, but differ on things like "Birth Control" "Gays" "abortions" it is made to polarize the people into distinct parties who are against each other, for reasons of control. Democrats and Republicans are much much more alike then we think. They differ on social issues to create an artificial debate for the people to squawk about, so we "think" we are making a difference with our vote, when their economic and foreign policies are very identical. Deep down most people just want the same simple things, so they create these issues to divide us.

What I dont like is Ron Paul's advertisements along with his approach.

He says the first thing he will do is shut down the dept of education..as if THAT is why our economy is bad...as if THAT is the biggest problem in America.

The Ron Paul supporters can never answer this question:

"You say that Ron Paul will fix the economy and bring jobs to America. Please explain to me how him cutting the departments of Education, energy, and what not is nothing more than MASSIVE job losses for the entire country?"

After I ask a question like that, I usually get bombarded with hatemail without a single answer to my question.

If Ron just said "All I will do in my first term is stop the war on drugs and bring our troops back home" I would vote for him so damn quick, but that isnt just it. The right wing in this country will not let him do any of his civil libertarian stuff. they will GLADLY cut the department of education though, and THAT is why Ron Paul says it will be the first thing he will do.

In other words, the only thing that would change if ron Paul got elected, in my opinion, would be the destruction of our half-assed education system. Everything else he supports and says would never make it past congress. Our education would pass into the private sector. We would be FORCED to support private schools, and once it all was done and said for, we would be spending MORE on education and our scientific education would drop even lower than it is now, as surely the stock owners of the private schools would want the American public to be as stupid as fuck unless you paid premium money to get taught REAL science and biology.

Me? I want the country to go to the left. Noam Chomsky has the right idea. you will never have a "free market" with the system we have now. The system we have now is EXACTLY what the businesses want. they want assured contracts. Corn growers get welfare for growing their product AND not for growing it. Same thing with sugar. Whatever doesnt sell on the market gets bought by the government at a price higher than what it is sold for on the market. Talk about a welfare system.

[Faith No More]

Republican - small government, people support themselves, civil liberties, individual freedom the individual

Please tell me you don't actually think this is what the Republicans stand for. These are merely code words they use to describe their beliefs. Let me break it down and show what they actually mean when they use these terms.

small government - I want the government to do what I want it to do. (They want a government just as big only they want to use it to regulate things like women's reproduction and create an even bigger industrial military complex.)

people support themselves - I don't give a fuck what happens to anyone else.

civil liberties - People should be able to exercise their freedoms as long as they are the freedoms I deem appropriate.

individual freedom - People can do what they want as long as it's what I want them to do.

The ultimate goal of the Republicans is not freedom for the individual. Their ultimate goal is a Christian theocracy. These two concepts are entirely in conflict with each other.

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In other words, the only thing that would change if ron Paul got elected, in my opinion, would be the destruction of our half-assed education system. Everything else he supports and says would never make it past congress. Our education would pass into the private sector. We would be FORCED to support private schools, and once it all was done and said for, we would be spending MORE on education and our scientific education would drop even lower than it is now, as surely the stock owners of the private schools would want the American public to be as stupid as fuck unless you paid premium money to get taught REAL science and biology.

Not only that, but it will further the system of the poor stay poor. Upward mobility wil become even more of a pipe dream since the one thing that truly makes it possible is a good education. Our current system is broken in this sense, because the poorer the community, the worse the schools. Ron Paul's ideas wil make it even worse.

[Doubting Thomas]

Republican - small government, people support themselves, civil liberties, individual freedom the individual

Maybe 20 years ago, but not now. Faith No More illustrated it perfectly. The Republican party is no longer the party of individual freedom and small government. Now it's all about establishing a Christian theocracy, and they'll let you have whatever civil liberties they deem appropriate, all the while expanding the government into your bedroom and elsewhere. Santorum admitted as much when he said that people couldn't be trusted to live how they want.

[reverendjeremiah]

Republican - small government, people support themselves, civil liberties, individual freedom the individual

Faithnomore is correct (and they kick ass!). for many of the republicans this is exactly what they mean. The right wing uses "code words". Therefore "faith based" really means "Christian".

But, Perhaps, do not fret. What you say IS correct. That is what a republican is supposed to be. In fact, it was the American republican Party that spawned the Progressive movement in America. Look up Theodore Roosevelt (my all time fav. president, ragardless of his minor flaws.) A healthy dose of civil libertarianism with just the right amount of social safety net. This is what Roosevelt meant when he said "A more efficient government". By knocking down the trusts of big business, you can guarentee a more freer market.

If I were to ever call myself a republican, I would call myself a Roosevelt Republican. Sure, I would prefer Anarcho-syndicalism, but I am willing to adapt if the system is fair.

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Not only that, but it will further the system of the poor stay poor. Upward mobility wil become even more of a pipe dream since the one thing that truly makes it possible is a good education. Our current system is broken in this sense, because the poorer the community, the worse the schools. Ron Paul's ideas wil make it even worse.

Dead on the money there faith. In order to have a freer and balanced market (you know, the kind that Libertarians preach will happen), you have to have equal opportunity to enter the market. The market should not be allowed to get "cornered". Syndicalism (anarcho or not) would ensure that economic system would happen... but I am sad to say that I am in a small minority supporting such an Ideal.

[DeistPaladin]

Republicans also get a lot of undo credit in other areas.

Defense: For all the Republican cooing over W Bush's one supposed accomplishment, "he kept us safe", the last Republican administration proved itself utterly incompetent at national security. The shut up Gen. Clark who was trying to warn them about Al Qaida. Bush and Condi were too obsessed with Saddam. The greatest national security debacle in our nation's history occurred on their watch. The Response was only on a small scale in Afghanistan. Bush clearly wasn't concerned about our chance to crush Al Qaida and he even said so when he announced he wasn't worried about Bin Laden. Instead, they invaded Iraq, which turned out to be a godsend for Bin Laden and a huge disaster (militarily, financially and in foreign credibility). Their torture program was counter-productive and cost us more credibility. They couldn't stop any further attacks, as Londoners and Spaniards found out on 7/7.

Accountability: There is none with the top 1% in this country. Condi, who served as national security adviser during our greatest national security debacle was promoted to Secretary of State. No heads rolled over 9/11 or over our subsequent military disaster in Iraq. Nobody was ever prosecuted or even investigated over any malfeasance in the economic meltdown of 2008.

Fiscal Responsibility: This one is a joke. Do I really need to comment?

Economic Growth: Trickle down economics has been a dismal failure. Bush had the most aggressive tax cuts for the wealthy and the most anemic job growth since the Great Depression to show for it. Deregulation has been a disaster.

[5thHorseman]

Amazing that a lot of Republicans call themselves 'fiscal conservatives', then you go look at national debt graphs and it just doesn't add up.

[DeistPaladin]

Amazing that a lot of Republicans call themselves 'fiscal conservatives', then you go look at national debt graphs and it just doesn't add up.

Facts no longer matter here in America. It's astonishing how badly our political discourse has devolved. A significant part of my country is on a steady diet of right wing propaganda (Fox and Talk Radio) that seems to have ironically modeled itself after Pravda of the former Soviet Union. They live in their own alternate reality.

Even the "mainstream media" has been taken over by the corporations. CNN practically invented and promoted the "Tea Party". Reporters no longer seem to ask pointed questions of our politicians or fact check any of their claims. It wasn't until 2006 before a reporter had the guts to ask Bush about why we invaded Iraq.

You really have to dig to find out what's really going on anymore. I find listening to foreign news sources like the BBC helps.

[5thHorseman]

Good for you DP, BBC is state owned, but is still excellentand mostly unbiased.

Our papers are shit though, either owned by Murdoch or Desmond or a Russian oligarch. But then again America doesn't have any decent national newspapers does ur?

[Anomalocaris]

Amazing that a lot of Republicans call themselves 'fiscal conservatives', then you go look at national debt graphs and it just doesn't add up.

Facts no longer matter here in America. It's astonishing how badly our political discourse has devolved. A significant part of my country is on a steady diet of right wing propaganda (Fox and Talk Radio) that seems to have ironically modeled itself after Pravda of the former Soviet Union. They live in their own alternate reality.

Even the "mainstream media" has been taken over by the corporations. CNN practically invented and promoted the "Tea Party". Reporters no longer seem to ask pointed questions of our politicians or fact check any of their claims. It wasn't until 2006 before a reporter had the guts to ask Bush about why we invaded Iraq.

You really have to dig to find out what's really going on anymore. I find listening to foreign news sources like the BBC helps.

I always regreted the fall of the Soviet Union. The existence of the Soviet Union had been necessary to encourage even small part of the America to self-examine and pretend to be respectable. After the collapse of the Soviet enemy, nothing appears to block America from degenerating into a totally unabashed political-religious cess pool.

[Perhaps]

Please tell me you don't actually think this is what the Republicans stand for. These are merely code words they use to describe their beliefs. Let me break it down and show what they actually mean when they use these terms.

The people who run for public office under a title do not, in any way, determine the definition of the title they use. They may misrepresent the title which they use, but it still holds its definition.

Instead of a political discussion in which people refer to candidates by their alleged title, perhaps we should truly specify their beliefs so as not to confuse or misrepresent their platform. It erks me, beyond words, when people look down on the republican party simply because of the people within it - this could also be said about religious groups. If you're going to use broad, over reaching terms to describe somebody or their beliefs then make sure you're using the correct term.

If I believe :

I want the government to do what I want it to do. (They want a government just as big only they want to use it to regulate things like women's reproduction and create an even bigger industrial military complex.)

I'm not a republican - rather I am a tyrant.

I don't give a fuck what happens to anyone else.

I'm a bad person, not a republican

People should be able to exercise their freedoms as long as they are the freedoms I deem appropriate.

I'm a tyrant, not a republican

People can do what they want as long as it's what I want them to do.

I'm a tyrant, not a republican

Perhaps, instead of referring to these platforms as republican we should deem a more appropriate title - tyrant.