Is this a true Christian?

[The Grand Nudger]

A person who believes in Christ, or self identifies as such (omitting deceit). Happy to clear that up for you.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Nice view you have there.

That was taken at my brother's place.


Below are some of my view:








Taken through my kitchen window

[Aardverk]

Let's put your query into more pragmatic representation.........

If you change my words - and you have - then obviously there may quite reasonably be a different conclusion. You have attempted reductio ad absurdum but failed. I see no reason to alter my original words, view or conclusion.

If I saw you stand alone outside a large US church and loudly spout your beliefs and call the Christian idiots, I would admire your courage too regardless of whether I agreed with you. I am sure you can understand the difference between agreeing with someone and admiring their courage, knowledge, skill or even their looks.

Another example - Naomi Campbell seems to be a thoroughly unpleasant person but I certainly admire her appearance and I'm sure I still would, even if she was a mass murderer.

[Epimethean]

I did not change your words: I inserted a few to clarify them so that you could see how many people see your perspective on this, which is rather simplistic.

You can reiterate your admiration for madness and idiocy so long as it is driven by conviction all you want: It will not make more sense through frequency.

What does Naomi Campbell's appearance have to do with lunatics and the unintended effects of their desires for the pain and suffering of others?

[Aardverk]

I did not change your words: I inserted a few.....

So you didn't understand that inserting a few words into to my sentences is the same as changing my words? Oh dear! Sorry but I really don't think I can help you here with English lessons.

You can reiterate your admiration for madness and idiocy so long as it is driven by conviction all you want.

If you can show me anywhere I have 'admired madness or idiocy so long as it is driven by conviction' I will kiss your digital feet. You are of course deliberately misquoting me from which I deduce that you are fully aware that you made a mistake - or two or three.

What does Naomi Campbell's appearance have to do with lunatics and the unintended effects of their desires for the pain and suffering of others?

I don't think I can explain this for you in words of one syllable but if you look at my words again you will doubtless understand that I gave that as an example of being able to admire someone for one facet of their being whilst deploring another facet. The clue is in my opening words, 'Another example'.... It is not a difficult concept and I did express it with perfect clarity so I don't see how else I can help you to understand. So let me just repeat my original words for you - 'you have to admire his courage'. Not his madness or idiocy or his desire for the pain and suffering of others - his courage. Clear now?

[SilverFrog]

Well, there's 8:29 of my life that I just wish I could but can't take back. What an absolute moron.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I would admire your courage too regardless of whether I agreed with you.

Would you admire my courage if I took a bible and began proselytising outside a mosque Friday after prayers in say Saudi Arabia? Perhaps Mehmet might explain the kinds of things which would happen.


You admire the courage of conviction of Fred Phelps and his offspring? Why or why not?


Godwin's law warning:

What about admiring the utter conviction of members of the Einsatzgruppen,who went around Eastern Europe in WW2 shooting Jewish men, women and children in their tens of thousands?

I think a course in critical thinking might really help you, because you suck at it right now.

[Epimethean]

Yes, he probably would. From what he says, he would admire the conviction of a mass murderer even as the man was busy killing his victims. Pretty fucked up.

[Aardverk]

Yes, he probably would. From what he says, he would admire the conviction of a mass murderer even as the man was busy killing his victims. Pretty fucked up.

So, it's come to that already, the resort of scoundrels. Epimethean is resorting to lies rather than even trying to present a logical argument.

Putting false words in my mouth and then criticising me for it is a pretty pathetic attempt at making an argument. Try using my actual words Epimethean and see how well you can do.

What about admiring the utter conviction of members of the Einsatzgruppen,who went around Eastern Europe in WW2 shooting Jewish men, women and children in their tens of thousands?

I think a course in critical thinking might really help you, because you suck at it right now.

See above! Despite Epimethean's lies, if you bother to look you will see that I condemned Hitler very, very clearly.

The issue is - why should anyone not admire good aspects and condemn the bad? Try Napoleon or Mussolini or Patten or Montomery, Che Guevera, Wellington, Nelson, Nelson Mandela or even you. We all do good things as well as bad yet some of these people are generally regarded as heroes and others as villains.

Who would you like to be the arbiter who decides at what point of villainy your good aspects are suddenly expunged from your record? You? Some sort of thought police? Priests maybe? Once you start telling people what to believe and what to think you are falling into the same messy trap that every religious person falls into. Do remember that I was advocating fairness - even fairness to an evil person.

If you want to discuss facts, reason and logic, I am happy to oblige. If you want to disagree with me, that is fine but don't put words in my mouth and criticise me for your words or you will be exposed as a fool.

Would you admire my courage if I took a bible and began proselytising outside a mosque Friday after prayers in say Saudi Arabia? Perhaps Mehmet might explain the kinds of things which would happen.

That is almost exactly the same example I gave in post#23 to make my point. The answer is, 'Yes, I would admire you'. That wouldn't stop me thinking you a fool but I would admire your bravery in exactly the same way that I admire the bravery of the oaf in the video.

[Epimethean]

Sorry, Aard, you said it-we only pointed out the insanity of what you said.