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(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: If you dont get what you need (food , job, water, son, daughter... etc) then it means that Supreme being is saying to you 'work harder! or 'do more good deeds!', 'help the poor', 'respect your mother' etc.
I mean your dont expect to recover from any sickness of you dont take medicine. You dont expect too live long if you your self smoke, One thing leads to another!
Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way. May be ... Out of no where you may grow old until the age of 100 without stroke, or the almighty savse you from a plane crash, or you winning a lottery!...
So, you are already assuming existence of a supreme being prior to the argument from need. What is the basis of your assumption?
February 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm (This post was last modified: February 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 13, 2012 at 1:37 pm)Koklanas Wrote: Unlike me, he could give all sorts of links as a evidence.
Don't feel bad, he couldn't either, in reality.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(February 13, 2012 at 1:37 pm)Koklanas Wrote: Zak's thinking is more advance than me. Unlike me, he could give all sorts of links as a evidence. I am only using my brain to exchange ideas with you guys.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: If you dont get what you need (food , job, water, son, daughter... etc) then it means that Supreme being is saying to you 'work harder! or 'do more good deeds!', 'help the poor', 'respect your mother' etc.
I mean your dont expect to recover from any sickness of you dont take medicine. You dont expect too live long if you your self smoke, One thing leads to another!
Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way. May be ... Out of no where you may grow old until the age of 100 without stroke, or the almighty savse you from a plane crash, or you winning a lottery!...
So, you are already assuming existence of a supreme being prior to the argument from need. What is the basis of your assumption?
prior to the argument from need?
I dont quite get what you mean, can you rephrase it.
(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: If you dont get what you need (food , job, water, son, daughter... etc) then it means that Supreme being is saying to you 'work harder! or 'do more good deeds!', 'help the poor', 'respect your mother' etc.
I mean your dont expect to recover from any sickness of you dont take medicine. You dont expect too live long if you your self smoke, One thing leads to another!
Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way. May be ... Out of no where you may grow old until the age of 100 without stroke, or the almighty savse you from a plane crash, or you winning a lottery!...
So, you are already assuming existence of a supreme being prior to the argument from need. What is the basis of your assumption?
prior to the argument from need?
I dont quite get what you mean, can you rephrase it.
You argued that since people need justice, therefore a god must exist to provide it. But your latter argument suggests that god exists regardless of people's needs. Thus, I'm asking you to support that.
February 13, 2012 at 2:16 pm (This post was last modified: February 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Your attempting to communicate a very common argument, sometimes called the argument from justice(other times criticized as the argument from desire).
I attached an excerpt and a link for an interesting article about this argument. Some people don't find this argument very persuasive. I'm one of those people. This doesn't meet my standard for evidence.
Quote:Then there is another very curious form of moral argument, which is this: they say that the existence of God is required in order to bring justice into the world. In the part of this universe that we know there is great injustice, and often the good suffer, and often the wicked prosper, and one hardly knows which of those is the more annoying; but if you are going to have justice in the universe as a whole you have to suppose a future life to redress the balance of life here on earth. So they say that there must be a God, and there must be Heaven and Hell in order that in the long run there may be justice. That is a very curious argument. If you looked at the matter from a scientific point of view, you would say, "After all, I only know this world. I do not know about the rest of the universe, but so far as one can argue at all on probabilities one would say that probably this world is a fair sample, and if there is injustice here the odds are that there is injustice elsewhere also." Supposing you got a crate of oranges that you opened, and you found all the top layer of oranges bad, you would not argue, "The underneath ones must be good, so as to redress the balance." You would say, "Probably the whole lot is a bad consignment"; and that is really what a scientific person would argue about the universe. He would say, "Here we find in this world a great deal of injustice, and so far as that goes that is a reason for supposing that justice does not rule in the world; and therefore so far as it goes it affords a moral argument against deity and not in favor of one." Of course I know that the sort of intellectual arguments that I have been talking to you about are not what really moves people. What really moves people to believe in God is not any intellectual argument at all. Most people believe in God because they have been taught from early infancy to do it, and that is the main reason.
Then I think that the next most powerful reason is the wish for safety, a sort of feeling that there is a big brother who will look after you. That plays a very profound part in influencing people's desire for a belief in God.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
