Noah's Ark

[Minimalist]

Yes, Average. One of the more amusing writings in all of xtain apologia is the First Apology of Justin Martyr.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...ology.html

Writing to Emperor Antoninus Pius ( c 160 AD ) he notes:

CHAPTER XXI -- ANALOGIES TO THE HISTORY OF CHRIST.

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; AEsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know. This only shall be said, that they are written for the advantage and encouragement of youthful scholars; for all reckon it an honourable thing to imitate the gods. But far be such a thought concerning the gods from every well-conditioned soul, as to believe that Jupiter himself, the governor and creator of all things, was both a parricide and the son of a parricide, and that being overcome by the love of base and shameful pleasures, he came in to Ganymede and those many women whom he had violated and that his sons did like actions. But, as we said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue; and we believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent are punished in everlasting fire.

( I quoted the entire passage to avoid the "context nazis" showing up.)

So Justin saw his jesus tales as nothing different to what was already in common usuage among the Greco-Romans.

Interesting..... and the xtians made this fucker a "saint."

[Drich]

We all know this story is bullshit, but I just had a debate with a Christian about this issue and it's still fresh on my mind so here it goes. A foreword, math is not my strong point and this was a quick write up as I'm currently at work, so if someone more mathematically inclined would like to fix my values go right ahead.

As of 2010, there are 1.7 million known species on Earth. Let's give the Christians the benefit of the doubt and remove Fish (31,300), Crustaceans (47,000), Corals (2,175) and Algae (13,201). Let's also condense the insects down to say, 25,000 from 1,000,000 for space sake. This lowers to number of species to a paltry 631,324. Double that and you have 1,262,648 animals. Each animal requires it's own space and it's own food to survive for 40 days and 40 nights. Some animals are much larger then others and some are much smaller. To reach an easy medium of space needed, let's say that all these animals need approximately the space and food a human would need. A human could survive for a little over a month in say, a 6x4' (24sq ft) room or so. Using this logic, the Ark would have needed to be 30,303,552sq feet just to store the animals. That's 1.08699sq miles. This is before you take in to account the amount of food and fresh water needed to sustain all these animals. Now obviously the boat would have been boat shaped and not a square. If you just take the 6 foot rooms needed and multiply it by the number of species you end up with a ship that is 1434 miles long, almost half the distance across the United States...

It's ridiculous to think that Noah would have been able to build something this massive, gather all these creatures, gather all the supplies, keep 1,262,648 fed and hydrated and managed to clean the feces from said animals several times a day.

If you are trying to make sense of the story of Noah as a logistical account of how to save the planet and the various species from ELI like a global flood, then you miss the whole point of the story. The logistical account is lacking for one reason. The story of Noah was not about one man defying God and saved the planet through his planning and efforts. The Story of Noah and the boat He built was the story of the extraordinary faith that was required of one man, to deem creation salvageable. Noah did not save creation through His efforts (his boat) Noah provided the faith that prompted God to save a remnant from righteous wrath.

so the same God that call creation into existence, call the animals to the Ark, sustained them on the Ark, had them repopulated their original habitats. Understand the ark was not the boat Noah built. It was the faith that fueled the whole effort. Remember Noah did not save creation though his efforts, God did.

[Napoléon]

so the same God that call creation into existence, call the animals to the Ark, sustained them on the Ark, had them repopulated their original habitats. Understand the ark was not the boat Noah built. It was the faith that fueled the whole effort. Remember Noah did not save creation though his efforts, God did.

I don't like all this 'testing' and fucking around with us that your god supposedly keeps doing. He seems to me to be like a kid with a micro-scope sitting over an ant hill.

[Loading Please Wait]

so the same God that call creation into existence, call the animals to the Ark, sustained them on the Ark, had them repopulated their original habitats. Understand the ark was not the boat Noah built. It was the faith that fueled the whole effort. Remember Noah did not save creation though his efforts, God did.

So.... GODDIDIT!

Was it also god molesting the children of the church with his big hard on?

[Cyberman]

Right. Magic. Got it. And I thought all this ree-lij-un stuff was gonna be hard.

[Ace Otana]

I can destroy his entire argument with four words - God is all knowing. Which means for god, to test anything will be pointless seeing as he already knows the results. God cannot be angered, pleased or prompted because he already know's the future. He's all powerful and all knowing, he can change things so that no one needed to die, no creation lost and no action required. God fails on all these. Some god....

[Minimalist]

then you miss the whole point of the story.

There is no point to the story.

Just some worthless moralizing from a bunch of 3d century priests trying to scare a bunch of fucking goat herders.

Amazing that there are still people who fall for it today. But then...when one looks at the relative intelligence of xtians, I guess it isn't so amazing.

[Drich]

I don't like all this 'testing' and fucking around with us that your god supposedly keeps doing. He seems to me to be like a kid with a micro-scope sitting over an ant hill.

How so?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

If you are trying to make sense of the story of Noah as a logistical account of how to save the planet and the various species from ELI like a global flood, then you miss the whole point of the story.

I agree that your interpretation is closer to that of mainstream Christianity, which considers the entire book of Genesis to be allegory.

However,the lunar religious right (of whom we have some sterling examples) believe in the literal truth of Genesis. Criticisms are addressed to THAT lunacy.

To say 'you miss the point' when a person disagrees with you on biblical exegesis is an ad hominem to which the rational response is "blow it out your arse"

[Norfolk And Chance]

We all know this story is bullshit, but I just had a debate with a Christian about this issue and it's still fresh on my mind so here it goes. A foreword, math is not my strong point and this was a quick write up as I'm currently at work, so if someone more mathematically inclined would like to fix my values go right ahead.

As of 2010, there are 1.7 million known species on Earth. Let's give the Christians the benefit of the doubt and remove Fish (31,300), Crustaceans (47,000), Corals (2,175) and Algae (13,201). Let's also condense the insects down to say, 25,000 from 1,000,000 for space sake. This lowers to number of species to a paltry 631,324. Double that and you have 1,262,648 animals. Each animal requires it's own space and it's own food to survive for 40 days and 40 nights. Some animals are much larger then others and some are much smaller. To reach an easy medium of space needed, let's say that all these animals need approximately the space and food a human would need. A human could survive for a little over a month in say, a 6x4' (24sq ft) room or so. Using this logic, the Ark would have needed to be 30,303,552sq feet just to store the animals. That's 1.08699sq miles. This is before you take in to account the amount of food and fresh water needed to sustain all these animals. Now obviously the boat would have been boat shaped and not a square. If you just take the 6 foot rooms needed and multiply it by the number of species you end up with a ship that is 1434 miles long, almost half the distance across the United States...

It's ridiculous to think that Noah would have been able to build something this massive, gather all these creatures, gather all the supplies, keep 1,262,648 fed and hydrated and managed to clean the feces from said animals several times a day.

If you are trying to make sense of the story of Noah as a logistical account of how to save the planet and the various species from ELI like a global flood, then you miss the whole point of the story. The logistical account is lacking for one reason. The story of Noah was not about one man defying God and saved the planet through his planning and efforts. The Story of Noah and the boat He built was the story of the extraordinary faith that was required of one man, to deem creation salvageable. Noah did not save creation through His efforts (his boat) Noah provided the faith that prompted God to save a remnant from righteous wrath.

so the same God that call creation into existence, call the animals to the Ark, sustained them on the Ark, had them repopulated their original habitats. Understand the ark was not the boat Noah built. It was the faith that fueled the whole effort. Remember Noah did not save creation though his efforts, God did.

Which animals did Noah not bother putting on the boat? I mean there are billions of species, and billions is a big number of species to collect - it would take comfortably longer than Noah's lifespan to even collect a fraction of them. Do you think maybe he rescued cute tiger cubs, and fluffy puppies, and baby giraffes, and missed out maggots, moths and stick insects?

Why bother putting anything on the Ark? god could have simply created them all again.

Complete waste of time if you ask me.