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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 1:31 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 1:32 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
IIRC, Genk, you are of the opinion that something very much like an objective morality (if not the real article itself) may exist right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 1:39 pm
(May 11, 2012 at 1:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Who's would you like to reference? There are plenty -ergo, subjectivity. Ergo, nihilism. Gekaus, I look forward to responding to your post, but first I'd like to see Rhythm stop avoiding the challenge and defend the claim, on his own, that the idea of morality has any meaning without proposing a universally applicable common standard.
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 1:48 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It has whatever meaning any given culture has applied to it, ergo subjectivity. With regards to claims of objective morality I would indeed by a moral nihilist. Nevertheless, I don't see how this has any effect on the usefulness of "morality" or whether or not I can source my particular brand of it from wherever. Similarly, I don't see why I would have to defend what has been working for us for as long as we've been engaging in it. The greatest hiccups arise, in fact, when one society asserts that it's value judgements are objective (and then proceeds to force them on another society).
Is this difficult to grasp or am I failing to effectively communicate?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 2:17 pm
(May 11, 2012 at 1:31 pm)Rhythm Wrote: IIRC, Genk, you are of the opinion that something very much like an objective morality (if not the real article itself) may exist right?
Yes.
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Well, there you go Chad, two atheists, two opinions. Seems that this issue might be it's own bag and not somehow necessarily tied to a lack of belief in god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 2:28 pm
I don't want to harm people who haven't harmed me or others. I'm not sure if that constitutes any real morality or not, its just how I'm wired.
That doesn't come from my catholic upbringing, back when I was being brainwashed I thought there was evil around every corner that wanted to corrupt or harm me because thats what I was taught and as long as I didn't question what I was taught I was safe. Turns out the only evil I needed to worry about was already in the process of doing both.
I'm lucky I broke free before it was too late.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 2:38 pm
I have no opinion on objective vs. subjective morality, but I have to point out that there is evidence for both. Murder, namely, being one of the primary parts of objective morality. Tribes tend to frown upon one member murdering another. And before you point to people like the Aztec, I will remind you that those killings were ritual...religious...claimed to be necessary to appease the gods so as to ensure the world didn't friggin' end.
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Yet what constitutes murder is not universal. Cue cannibalism.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 3:36 pm
I get my morality from whatever daily newspaper I happen to be reading at the time.
Isnt that their job?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Morality: Where do you get yours?
May 11, 2012 at 3:48 pm
(May 11, 2012 at 2:38 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: I will remind you that those killings were ritual...religious...c... Gulags and death camps and cultural revolutions involve no religious rituals but all have singled out religious believers for their victims.
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