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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 11, 2012 at 12:32 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What makes this "freewill" bullshit so important here on earth, and then completely irrelevant once one crosses those pearly gates? IOW, why is freewill such a convenient excuse here in this world, but completely abandoned in the next?
On Earth- God, please do something- "I can't, free will"
In heaven-God, can I do something? "Nope, no free will here"
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 11, 2012 at 12:51 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 12:51 pm by downbeatplumb.)
(May 10, 2012 at 11:21 pm)Drich Wrote: Short answer is no.
I'm assuming of course that no one in heaven will ever sin which is what I think most Christians think)
The "Heavenly" experience is divided into two distinct time periods pre and post millennial reign. Pre millennial is where even boarder line Christians live under Christ. At the end of this reign Satan will be loosed again to harvest those find themselves discontented living under the reign or rule of Christ. After this final rebellion and the final judgement those left will live in the expressed will of God.
Rev 20
Ok now tell us where the loos are?
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 7:04 am
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm
People in Heaven are 'incapable' of sinning the way God is 'incapable' of sinning.
Heaven, partaking of God's divine nature, is something which is only possible if you are perfect. A perfect person doesn't commit any evil--if they committed evil, they wouldn't be perfect after all, and they wouldn't have been in Heaven.
Its sort of the flip question of "can someone in Hell repent?" Hell is the absence of any good, so any genuine feelings of remorse for sin and the seed of goodness which is allowed to bring that repentence, isn't compatible with hell.
Christians suffer in remorse for their sins, and are brought closer to perfection both in this world and in Purgatory.
(Purgatory is held by the majority of Christianity, though not all of it.)
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 3:39 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2012 at 3:40 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: People in Heaven are 'incapable' of sinning the way God is 'incapable' of sinning.
As in, anything they do is automatically deemed as just.. even if its genocide, murder etc etc.. woah.. heaven sounds .. nasty.
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: Heaven, partaking of God's divine nature, is something which is only possible if you are perfect. A perfect person doesn't commit any evil--if they committed evil, they wouldn't be perfect after all, and they wouldn't have been in Heaven.
Heaven must be very empty, and ironically free from most of the Popes and Saints.
If we are talking repentance for those sins, then we must also talk about the loss of free will.
Its blase to say that only perfect people go to heaven, therefore no sin is committed. Humans are not black and white, perfect or completely evil. Its meaningless as a paragraph. If we discuss, that this perfection is attained through true repentence then we must also accept that those in heaven are incapable of change, which ergo, limits and perhaps annihilates free will. Free Will by its very nature requires the ability to change, otherwise actions are completely determined.
The idea of "Good" itself is only useful as a term in view of the concept of free will, that we can choose altruism, maliciousness etc.
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: Its sort of the flip question of "can someone in Hell repent?" Hell is the absence of any good, so any genuine feelings of remorse for sin and the seed of goodness which is allowed to bring that repentence, isn't compatible with hell.
Since part of the "reasons to go to hell" involve non-belief, one would consider that one would give repentence a pretty good go.
Unless you are basically saying, that non-belief in God, means you are completely evil in every aspect, which is non-compatible with .. the real world.
This is a peculiarly black and white way to think of things, all the evil you can eat, as long as you follow up feeling genuine remorse, and you're "PERFECT" for eternity.
A person who dedicates their life to making life good for their fellow man, doesn't believe in God. Sent to hell with no opportunity for remorse for that simple lack of belief.
How human, and malicious this God becomes.
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: Christians suffer in remorse for their sins, and are brought closer to perfection both in this world and in Purgatory.
Well, you are catholic, so inventing new worlds is hardly new, except when you have to say "whoops, never existed anyway". What happened to Limbo anyway?
Basically, your concept of heaven becomes this torturous existence, where you do not CONFORM to God's standards, and therefore are sent to purgatory until your freewill is crushed (remember, perfection is incompatible with free will).
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: (Purgatory is held by the majority of Christianity, though not all of it.)
Thankfully, its a nasty piece of thinking, which is all the more astounding that it is plucked from the air, with hardly reference in the bible itself.
You'd think something like that would be worth mentioning.....
Clearly 12th century catholics decided the bible hadn't plagiarised enough from Zoroastrianism and others.
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Before the whining begins from the ignorant who have no concept of how much of their silly belief system is derived from Zoroastrianism, let's just put this here to piss them off.
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/beliefs.asp
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 4:00 pm
(May 12, 2012 at 3:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Before the whining begins from the ignorant who have no concept of how much of their silly belief system is derived from Zoroastrianism, let's just put this here to piss them off.
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/beliefs.asp
Oh crap. One more Hell I'm going to have to worry about.
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Not one more.... the original.
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: People in Heaven are 'incapable' of sinning the way God is 'incapable' of sinning.
So "God" can indiscriminately kill people and it's all good. Kind of like how a dictator can do whatever he wants and it's not a crime.
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
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RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 5:15 pm
(May 12, 2012 at 5:04 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Not one more.... the original.
Hipster Hell then.
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"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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