My perspective - truth or delusion?

[Faith No More]

You're doing that circular logic thing again. When asked why there is an eternal basis you say because god is the basis. You have, however, in the OP used the eternal basis of these things as a justification for why god exists.

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

My perspective is that the nature of goodness is that it is linked to eternal basis. This eternal basis is the source of the nobility of the spirit behind goodness.

Delusion to the point of being fuck all nuts. I didn't even bother reading the rest.

It's precisely the same "sun goes up, sun goes down" horseshit shell game he is playing in his "why I'm a theist fucktard" thread. Regyrgitated right out of it.

Why did he even bother to create a second thread?

[NoMoreFaith]

You attribute morality an eternal source, you give it a substance and "person" behind it.

Morality seems to be in need of "Person-hood" though. So if it needs eternal basis, that basis surely needs to be a Person.

Exactly what the tendency to anthropomorphise is all about. Nothing to do with reality, but your requirement that morality is in "need" of a person. In reality, it needs no such thing.

You have a private feeling it is required, but lacks substance in terms of a persuasive argument through simple application of simplicity. There are many more likely reasons for the development of social consensus on behaviour.. especially in a fully sentient intelligent animal congregation.

[Mystic]

But surely morality is related to conscious thought. Can we agree on that much?

[NoMoreFaith]

But surely morality is related to conscious thought. Can we agree on that much?

On a conceptual rather that actual level yes.

The only real test for these things is to remove humans from social control, but since babies can't fend for themselves, its probably impossible to falsify.

If standard morality developed in a human who had never been subject to a society of some form, including parental interaction, it would be an argument that it transcends the consciousness to a higher level. But only barely.

[Mystic]

But regarding the eternal basis, how can it be anything other then a being, if morality is related to conscious thought?

[The Grand Nudger]

My perspective is that the nature of goodness is that it is linked to eternal basis. This eternal basis is the source of the nobility of the spirit behind goodness.

All fine and dandy, but can you demonstrate that this is so? (Bous points if you can convince me that this isn't a platitude.)

My perspective is that we have a soul and we have the light of God as the foundation of that soul. It shines bright. The light of greatness, the light of beauty, is all pointing to absolute origin and basis.

All fine and dandy, but can you demonstrate that this is so? (Bonus points if you can convince me that this isn't a platitude.)

The nobleness in goodness, shows a link to the divine. The authority of morality speaks of eternal basis.

Not until you have demonstrated that the above is so.

My perspective is that this all spiritual knowledge. We are endowed with knowledge of God.

Not until you have demonstrated that such a thing a s a spirit even exists..and then, I don't know if you've ever thought of this, that you personally have one. You see, Jaguars exist, but I do not possess a Jaguar.....

Now here is the question, if God exists and he is all these things, the source of morality, the eternal basis to it, the sun of the rays of greatness - this perspective would be based on reality right?

Your "if" is showing. Reality is not a game of "if's, but "is"s.

Now why wouldn't it be knowledge if he is all this? Why if a soul exists should we not believe in spiritual knowledge that the eyes of the soul can see.

Again, what soul? What "eyes of the soul"?

Now suppose there is no God. What is the delusion? Where is it coming from? Why this false belief? Why does it seem morality needs an eternal basis? Why does it seem greatness points to eternal greatness? Why does it seem honor points to eternal honor?

That's the nil position. Pick up a book if you want to learn about gods and why we believe in them, it's not like no ones ever asked the question. It seems like morality needs an eternal basis? Im guessing it seems like this to you, but what does that have to do with morality or an eternal basis...or a god? "Greatness" and "honor" are in the same boat.

Why does it seem I know morality to be true and that the noble spirit behind it is divine?

It may seem that way, to you, but is it actually that way in reality?

What exactly is the source of this delusion, that makes me feel like I know something I don't?

News flash, you are the source of your own delusions, in each and every case.

It seems it's only really possible to be a delusion, if God doesn't exist. But the way I perceive it - it seems like genuine knowledge.

And the magician really "seems" to saw the woman in half. You trust yourself entirely too much.

Why does it seems morality needs an eternal basis? In fact without this eternal basis, we get people saying things like it comes down to survival or self interest.

Didn't you already ask this question...and you act as though morality actually needs an eternal basis, as though someone has demonstrated this to be the case...well, if they have, it wasn't you. Start there.

The nobility of the spirit behind morality, the why, the should, the command, the authority - am I the only one perceives this as such?

Nope, plenty of people believe in such thigs, and most of you believe entirely different things for answers to those questions. I personally don't give a shit what any of you believe.

Why shouldn't I make the choice to believe it's genuine knowledge? After all, in the case of God existing and he being as I described, the knowledge would justified.

Do whatever you like, it's your own head you're screwing with. You say that this "knowledge" would be justified but you have done no such thing (no one in the history of man has ever managed to do any such thing-so good luck with that)

So it seems the only way to tell me I am deluded is to assume God doesn't exist.

One hardly has to assume that god doesn't exist to tell you that you are deluded, a believer in god might tell you that you are deluded the very moment your beliefs come to odds with his own. Why do you imagine that anything about a god has to be "assumed" in the first place? Gods are known quantities, plenty of factually accurate information about them no assumptions required.

But why should I believe that?

Why should you believe anything?

[Jackalope]

But if it's an eternal basis, how can it be anything other then a being, if morality is related to conscious thought?

Two problems here.

Your "if" has not been demonstrated to be true, and "how can it be anything other than..." is an argument from ignorance. If there was a demonstrable eternal basis for morality, it could very well be something you have not conceived of (or could not).

[Mystic]

Your "if" has not been demonstrated to be true, and "how can it be anything other than..." is an argument from ignorance. If there was a demonstrable eternal basis for morality, it could very well be something you have not conceived of (or could not).

Well eternal basis has been argued for in other threads, but I think it's logical to assume this is a conscious being, as morality cannot be divorced from conscious.

[Jackalope]

Your "if" has not been demonstrated to be true, and "how can it be anything other than..." is an argument from ignorance. If there was a demonstrable eternal basis for morality, it could very well be something you have not conceived of (or could not).

Well eternal basis has been argued for in other threads, but I think it's logical to assume this is a conscious being, as morality cannot be divorced from conscious.

You're still stuck on the assumption that the consciousness that morality is derived from is external to ourselves. I don't believe this has been demonstrated.