Posts: 196
Threads: 7
Joined: July 3, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 1:32 pm
(July 11, 2012 at 1:31 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: http://sententias.org/2012/01/04/evoluti...ar-violin/
If you would like to comment, I would appreciate if you read the whole article.
(August 7, 2012 at 3:19 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (August 7, 2012 at 1:21 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: The US court system would disagree with you. Your beef is not with me but with eyewitness testimony.
No, they wouldn't. If, for example, you claimed that someone had committed a murder, and you had no body to show for it, you're shit out of luck. If, for example, you claimed that someone had stolen something from you, but you could not produce evidence that the goods in question even existed...you're shit out of luck. I could go on and on and on. Eyewitness testimony is used to sway a jury (and only when that testimony can be substantiated). They have a word for "he said she said" bullshit. Sorry, try again.
Eyewitness testimony absolutely can be enough to convict a person of a crime. It also helps when there are more than one eyewitnesses. Granted, not every time, but it is. He said she said is, I think, called hearsay, but actually witnessing something is a different story.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
Posts: 67384
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 1:37 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2012 at 1:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
A witness to a crime that never occurred isn't very convincing, is it? Tell you what, dredge up some precedent for me where a defendant was convicted based on nothing but eyewitness testimony. That sound fair? You show me a case where corpus delicti was not established (or established by testimony alone) and a conviction was secured and I'll show you a free man.
In the meantime, let me take some time to quote your response.
"but actually witnessing something is a different story"
Yes, yes it is, unfortunately your testimony alone will not be sufficient to establish that you did -actually witness something-. How many ways will this have to be explained to you?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 31014
Threads: 204
Joined: July 19, 2011
Reputation:
141
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 1:41 pm
(August 8, 2012 at 1:32 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: but actually witnessing something is a different story.
Note that there is an enormous difference between "actually witnessing" and "claiming to have witnessed" something occurring, and the latter cannot in and of itself establish the former.
Posts: 196
Threads: 7
Joined: July 3, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 1:43 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2012 at 1:43 pm by Jeffonthenet.)
(August 8, 2012 at 1:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: A witness to a crime that never occurred isn't very convincing, is it? Tell you what, dredge up some precedent for me where a defendant was convicted based on nothing but eyewitness testimony. That sound fair? Youshow me a case where corpus delicti was not established and a conviction was secured and I'll show you a free man.
You said eyewitness testimony is irrelevant… didn't you? Now you are claiming it is irrelevant only when no crime has been shown to have occurred? You seem to be changing your claims. And you must see that it is not exactly the same thing as determining who committed a crime as if God exists. And this bickering is really getting on my nerves. I think you just want to fight rather than get to the truth.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
Posts: 67384
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 1:45 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2012 at 1:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Eyewitness testimony in and of itself is irrelevent, you have been arguing otherwise for pages. If this bickering gets on your nerves then either A: stop, or B: get your shit straight. How hard is that?
In what way would determining who committed a crime and whether or not a god exists differ? Testimony wont put a man in jail under it's own steam but it will rule a god in? Talk about low (and double) standards.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 31014
Threads: 204
Joined: July 19, 2011
Reputation:
141
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 1:45 pm
(August 8, 2012 at 1:43 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: You said eyewitness testimony is irrelevant… didn't you? Now you are claiming it is irrelevant only when no crime has been shown to have occurred? You seem to be changing your claims. And you must see that it is not exactly the same thing as determining who committed a crime as if God exists. And this bickering is really getting on my nerves. I think you just want to fight rather than get to the truth.
Did you hear something go "whoosh"? Something sailing over your head, perhaps?
Posts: 196
Threads: 7
Joined: July 3, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 3:14 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2012 at 3:15 pm by Jeffonthenet.)
(August 8, 2012 at 1:45 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Eyewitness testimony in and of itself is irrelevent, you have been arguing otherwise for pages. If this bickering gets on your nerves then either A: stop, or B: get your shit straight. How hard is that?
In what way would determining who committed a crime and whether or not a god exists differ? Testimony wont put a man in jail under it's own steam but it will rule a god in? Talk about low (and double) standards.
If we had two hundred reliable eyewitnesses say in court that they saw person A kill a homeless man whose body was never found… regardless of what the judge would do, it seems to me that this would be sufficient to know that Person A is guilty of this crime. Therefore, it seems to me that eyewitness testimony can be useful even if it stands alone.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
Posts: 67384
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 3:17 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2012 at 3:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm glad you aren't on any jury at any trial of mine then. I'm also glad that it wouldn't matter if you were. FFS......
"I'd rather convict a man of murder than own up to the problems with my argument". Well, good for you, I guess? Look, there has never been any doubt as to whether or not this sort of thing "seems to you" to be sufficient, whether or not it's "seems to you" to be useful. Clearly you value testimony. Oftentimes those things that "seem" sufficient, or "seem" useful to us personally are in fact neither in reality. This is one of those times.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 196
Threads: 7
Joined: July 3, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 3:20 pm
I couldn't live with myself if I wouldn't convict a man of a crime that there were 200 reliable witnesses to.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
Posts: 31014
Threads: 204
Joined: July 19, 2011
Reputation:
141
RE: Evolution, the Bible, and the 3.5 Million Dollar Violin - my article
August 8, 2012 at 3:20 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2012 at 3:23 pm by Jackalope.)
Nice backpeddling!
Note how we've gone from this:
Quote:Eyewitness testimony absolutely can be enough to convict a person of a crime.
to
Quote:it seems to me that this would be sufficient to know that Person A is guilty of this crime.
At this rate, in a few hours, you may very well be denying you said it at all.
(August 8, 2012 at 3:20 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: I couldn't live with myself if I wouldn't convict a man of a crime that there were 200 reliable witnesses to.
Be sure you mention that you're willing to convict without corpus delicti during voir dire and I can pretty much guarantee that you won't have to.
|
