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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 26, 2012 at 12:41 am
(August 26, 2012 at 12:35 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Perhaps it is not God that failed, but you.
Also highly flawed.
First we have to deal with the fact that it's the responsibility of the one who initiates the communication to make sure their message is conveyed clearly and is well understood. Even if you can get past that, there's the fact that if there's something wrong with me, if I'm imperfect, then that's a failing on God's part, too. A perfect being cannot, by definition of the word 'perfect,' create an imperfect creation.
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 26, 2012 at 12:48 am
(August 26, 2012 at 12:41 am)TaraJo Wrote: (August 26, 2012 at 12:35 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Perhaps it is not God that failed, but you.
Also highly flawed.
First we have to deal with the fact that it's the responsibility of the one who initiates the communication to make sure their message is conveyed clearly and is well understood. Even if you can get past that, there's the fact that if there's something wrong with me, if I'm imperfect, then that's a failing on God's part, too. A perfect being cannot, by definition of the word 'perfect,' create an imperfect creation.
I edited my post to give more info, such as the contention that God is under no obligation to reveal himself to you.
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 26, 2012 at 7:38 am
Then I am under no obligation to worship this god. End of Jeff.
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 26, 2012 at 11:31 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2012 at 11:34 pm by Jeffonthenet.)
(August 26, 2012 at 7:38 am)Rhythm Wrote: Then I am under no obligation to worship this god. End of Jeff.
If I grant you this, it is still true that you could be under obligation to moral commands which makes it such that God is under no obligation to save you if you do not live a moral life… regardless of if you worship Him or not.and it seems plausible that no one has lived such a moral life when we consider the great suffering in the world and how relatively little we all do to end it. Such a state seems consistent with traditional Christian teaching which states that we are only saved by the mercy of God and not by anything we have done.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 26, 2012 at 11:44 pm
If I am not able to rise above my destiny of my own volition, then in what sense am I responsible for not rising above my destiny?
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 26, 2012 at 11:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2012 at 11:57 pm by Jeffonthenet.)
(August 26, 2012 at 11:44 pm)apophenia Wrote:
If I am not able to rise above my destiny of my own volition, then in what sense am I responsible for not rising above my destiny?
I think the use of the word destiny assumes that God is responsible for your fate. Even if every man except for Christ sins, it doesn't follow that it is not their responsibility just as it is no excuse for moral evil to say "everyone does it."
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 27, 2012 at 12:29 am
Now, now, don't be changing the subject with an irrelevant exegesis. The topic was God's grace. If God's grace is necessary, than how am I responsible for it being required? If it's not necessary, your doctrine is wrong. Either I'm responsible for meeting a bar I can't meet, or your God is a Karmic leech. It's a simple dichotomy. Feel free to carve out a third option if you can. But quibbling about the metaphysics implied by the word "destiny" does not cut the mustard.
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 27, 2012 at 12:42 am
(August 27, 2012 at 12:29 am)apophenia Wrote:
Now, now, don't be changing the subject with an irrelevant exegesis. The topic was God's grace. If God's grace is necessary, than how am I responsible for it being required? If it's not necessary, your doctrine is wrong. Either I'm responsible for meeting a bar I can't meet, or your God is a Karmic leech. It's a simple dichotomy. Feel free to carve out a third option if you can. But quibbling about the metaphysics implied by the word "destiny" does not cut the mustard.
I am not claiming that you are responsible for meeting a bar you cannot meet. Indeed, I agree that this would be wrong. I am not sure what you mean about God's grace being necessary. Philosophically speaking, I would think that God's grace (His undeserved favor) being for any given person is contingent (as opposed to necessary) upon two things… the sin of person X and the free choice of God.
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 27, 2012 at 12:53 am
That doesn't really make you any variation Buddhist, that just means you're an admirer of philosophy.
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RE: Philosophical Buddhist who is still an atheist
August 27, 2012 at 2:22 am
I know next to nothing about Buddhism, but one thing I'm fairly sure of is that it's an atheist religion i.e. not associated with gods. Therefore to say you're an atheist Buddhist doesn't make much sense. I think you were meant to say you're a secular Buddhist which means you see it as a good philosophy but don't believe in the supernatural aspects.
I hope none of this changes your stance on it. It's awesome to hear that it has impacted you positively, and I'd say why not just find out more? If you see it as a philosophy then you can't go wrong in my opinion.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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