Why Yahweh? (Or Allah, or Zeus, etc.)

[Darkstar]

OK, what's any of that got to do with the thread topic? I understand things drift, but come on...

Well, if the gospels can be shown to be unreliable, that will place them in the same league as the many other holy texts you already consider unreliable. I guess I was mistaken when I though theists would be debating each other in here...

[John V]

OK, what's any of that got to do with the thread topic? I understand things drift, but come on...

Well, if the gospels can be shown to be unreliable, that will place them in the same league as the many other holy texts you already consider unreliable. I guess I was mistaken when I though theists would be debating each other in here...

Sorry, I should have quoted - I was referring to the mysticknight v. genkaus thing, which seems to regard religious v. secular law and government.

[Minimalist]

OK, what's any of that got to do with the thread topic? I understand things drift, but come on...

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I never expect any devotee of fairy tales to learn how phony it all is.

Still, there are others here who are far more intelligent than you and this is for their benefit. You keep praying to fucking "Paul." It's obviously all you can handle.


http://jesusneverexisted.com/galatians.html

Yep, you sure is a fart smeller all right!

And the Paul story smells almost as much as the jesus story.

But when you have your head perpetually shoved up your ass it must be hard to tell the difference.

The point is that all of their fairy tales need to be dissected. None of it can be allowed to go unquestioned.

[FallentoReason]

In those times they were perfectly fine with their chosen saviour god to have resided in the lower heavens while still holding human attributes. E.g. Mithras didn't slay a bull on earth to redeem mankind but rather in the heavens. I'm sure the same goes for Hercules' 12 works in that they weren't earthly occurences but rather "cosmic". Therefore, I don't see any conflict here between what Paul says and Jesus being a spirit.

Sorry, but sweeping unsupported generalizations don't overturn the plain reading of the text, which indicates that Jesus was human. Spirits aren't typically born of women.

If you go to a Mithraeum you will find a depiction of Mithra slaying the bull. The image will be accompanied by a crow on Mithra's shoulder, a scorpion by the bull's genitals, a dog lapping at the fatal wound, a cup beneath the fatal wound and a snake curled around the cup. This no doubt is a map of the heavens, where each animal represents their relative constellation i.e. Taurus, Corvus, Hydra, Canis Major/Minor etc...

On a side note, it is clear that Mithraism pre-dates Christianity because of the fact that it's a bull that Mithras is slaying. The last astrological age was Taurus and now we're in the age of Pisces, which is was Jesus is heavily tied to (what's the symbol for Jesus that you put on the back of your car?). Then the most damning verse in the Bible is that of Luke 22:10 concerning the next passover; "And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in." If you check the 12 Houses of the Zodiac you will see that Aquarius is the next age. Jesus will supposedly be returning, not when the world ends, but the age (in the Greek it's aeon, which has been mistranslated to "world").

I have no problems in accepting that some guy 2000 years ago claimed to be the messiah, as apparently there were lots. I find it hard to believe though that the Biblical Jesus existed because every word devoted to him in the Bible seems to tell a different story.

It goes to show the events found in the Gospels never happened.

Are you arguing:
- that the gospels were intended as spiritual as well, or
- that the gospels conflict with Paul?

[/quote]

The Gospels are jam-packed with astrology. Jesus' birth in Bethlehem doesn't work historically, but it makes perfect sense astrologically. I'll explain that if you need me to.

If we assume Paul is speaking of anything but a human who spent time on earth, then him and the Gospels align beautifully. See, when I said before that this information might sound incoherent to the Christian, I meant modern-day Christians. This interpretation of Jesus could very well be what Paul and the anonymous Gospel authors meant, which means it's not up for debate because they are the fathers of what you believe in. All we are doing here is stripping the "tradition" away and actually seeing these texts for what they are, because historically (i.e. traditionally) they don't stand up too well.

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Sorry, but sweeping unsupported generalizations don't overturn the plain reading of the text, which indicates that Jesus was human. Spirits aren't typically born of women.

For once I am going to have to agree with John V. Jesus was human, there is no doubt about this.

I think the real claim, which has perhaps been distorted, is that the prophecy of Jesus's birth is not a legitimate one, as 'virgin' also meant 'young woman' at thet time, and this implied nothing miraculous about Jesus's birth. The virgin birth was most likely made up after Jesus's death.

Hercules was born from Acmene, a mere mortal, after Jupiter raped her. Does that make Hercules a real person?

[John V]

On a side note, it is clear that Mithraism pre-dates Christianity because of the fact that it's a bull that Mithras is slaying. The last astrological age was Taurus and now we're in the age of Pisces, which is was Jesus is heavily tied to (what's the symbol for Jesus that you put on the back of your car?). Then the most damning verse in the Bible is that of Luke 22:10 concerning the next passover; "And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in." If you check the 12 Houses of the Zodiac you will see that Aquarius is the next age. Jesus will supposedly be returning, not when the world ends, but the age (in the Greek it's aeon, which has been mistranslated to "world").

Wow. If that's the most damning verse in the Bible, I'm not at all concerned. A man bearing a pitcher of water = the age of Aquarius? Seriously? Let me restate my earlier position. This is incoherent to all but conspiracy theorists. To them it probably makes perfect sense! Thanks for the laugh though.

[Ben Davis]

[John V]

Next in the title is Zeus.

To my knowledge, the earliest written records of substance re: Zeus were done by Homer and Hesiod. No miracles are attributed to these two. They're generally regarded as poets, not prophets. Hesiod was a writer in general, and also wrote on other topics - don't know about Homer.

Due to the time spans and other factors they obviously weren't writing as witnesses. They could have been as fiction or speculation. They could have been writing it as direct revelation from the gods. We don't really know their intent.

Even if intended as revelation, we have the same problem as Muhammed - no miracles even claimed as support.

So, evidence for the Greek gods is weaker than for Christianity.

[FallentoReason]

On a side note, it is clear that Mithraism pre-dates Christianity because of the fact that it's a bull that Mithras is slaying. The last astrological age was Taurus and now we're in the age of Pisces, which is was Jesus is heavily tied to (what's the symbol for Jesus that you put on the back of your car?). Then the most damning verse in the Bible is that of Luke 22:10 concerning the next passover; "And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in." If you check the 12 Houses of the Zodiac you will see that Aquarius is the next age. Jesus will supposedly be returning, not when the world ends, but the age (in the Greek it's aeon, which has been mistranslated to "world").

Wow. If that's the most damning verse in the Bible, I'm not at all concerned. A man bearing a pitcher of water = the age of Aquarius? Seriously? Let me restate my earlier position. This is incoherent to all but conspiracy theorists. To them it probably makes perfect sense! Thanks for the laugh though.

Still waiting for some sort of refutation. All I see is that you've dodged the bullet. Not impressed.

[John V]

Pssst...FTR...I heard the moon landing was FAKED!

[FallentoReason]

Next in the title is Zeus.

To my knowledge, the earliest written records of substance re: Zeus were done by Homer and Hesiod. No miracles are attributed to these two. They're generally regarded as poets, not prophets. Hesiod was a writer in general, and also wrote on other topics - don't know about Homer.

Due to the time spans and other factors they obviously weren't writing as witnesses. They could have been as fiction or speculation. They could have been writing it as direct revelation from the gods. We don't really know their intent.

Even if intended as revelation, we have the same problem as Muhammed - no miracles even claimed as support.

So, evidence for the Greek gods is weaker than for Christianity.

Homer possibly never existed. His writing style suspiciously has the same style as how a bard would say it i.e. it's written in a way that makes it easy to be remembered orally. So what's found in the epics most likely came from a bunch of bards and were later penned and not the other way around.

Either way, I see what you're saying. What about something closer to home, like Mithras who I mentioned before, who had a last supper, whose followers had a Holy Communion, who were annointed with oil on their foreheads? Justin Martyr I tell you... I swear he was a closet Mithraist!

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Pssst...FTR...I heard the moon landing was FAKED!

What were the people worshipping when Moses brought down the tablets? A bull, because back then it was the age of Taurus. The whole Jesus hype came about from the new age, Pisces, and now that age will end in 2160 A.D. making it the age of Aquarius, hence the "water bearer" in Luke. Crystal clear and legitimate until you prove otherwise.