Failed Biblical Prophecies

[Drich]

Here we go: http://www.middleeast.com/tyre.htm

Founded at the start of the third millennium B.C., Tyre originally consisted of a mainland settlement and a modest island city that lay a short distance off shore. But it was not until the first millennium B.C. that the city experienced its golden age.
In the 10th century B.C. Hiram, King of Tyre, joined two islets by landfill.

Early in the sixth century B.C. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, laid siege to the walled city for thirteen years. Tyre stood firm, but it was probable that at this time the residents of the mainland city abandoned it for the safety of the island.

(bolding added)
So, I have now demonstrated that Nebuchadnezzar did not destroy Tyre. He may have ruined part of it, but certainly not in the way the bible describes.

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Ezekiel 26:7-10 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through.

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At the beginning of this passage, he notes how Nebuchadnezzar will destroy the mainland settlements. He then goes on to explain how Nebuchadnezzar will break through the city walls. The city walls he speaks of are the walls of the fortified island that Nebuchadnezzar could not breach. It is very explicit in that Nebuchadnezzar will destoy both the mainland settlements and the main city of Tyre. At best, he destroyed only the settlements, and this much is not even certain.

The most important recent archaeological find in a Phoenician cemetery from the first millennium B.C. Discovered in 1991 during clandestine excavations, this is the first cemetery of its kind found in Lebanon. Funerary jars, inscribed steles and jewelry
were among the objects retrieved
from the site.

Read: Phonecian. Some artifacts from the original city have been found.

make up your mind what are you argueing here? Does the destruction of lend itself to the crediablity of Ezekiel as a prophet of God or doesn't it? (looking for a yes or no) Further more if Ezekiel is a prophet of God, and God gives the revelation to Ezekiel and Ezk says God is going to raise up many nations to destroy Tyre then the full fillment of said prophesy does in fact proves Ezk is indeed a prophet of God. subsequentlyproving that God is also responsiable for the destruction of tyre. Again a simple yes or no will do.

[Darkstar]

No and no. In fact, not at all. He said it would be Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar failed. Alexander did it later, but the fact that he explicitly described Nebuchadnezzar as doing it when he did not shows that the prophecy was incorrect. Sure, it was eventually destroyed, but not in the way it was described. For an ancient city that was already in the sights of a number of ambitious nations to be eventually destoyed is not a shock or evidence that god was behind it, especially when the army god designated as the destroyer failed. What most likely happened was the author recognized that Tyre was in the sights of ambitious nations, so he said god would bring nations against it, and Nebuchadnezzar would finish it. Unfortunately for his prophecy, he put too much confidence in Nebuchadnezzar's capabilities and Nebuchadnezzar failed.

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Disclaimer: the next part of this post is bitingly sarcastic. No offenses intended. Theists, you have been warned.

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Apologist: It looks like people are trying to disprove the Tyre prophecy, but Tyre was destroyed.

Skeptic: But Nebuchadnezzar didn't destroy the city.

Apologist: So? Alexander the great did, we can just ignore the Nebucahnezzar part.

Skeptic: But the city of Tyre is still standing.

Apologist: But that is the new Tyre built after the first one was destroyed.

Skeptic: But it says Tyre would never be rebuilt.

Apologist: That doesn't count as rebuilding because it isn't in the exact same spot.

Skeptic: But it says Tyre would never be found and the city of Tyre has been found.

Apologist: One of the five definitions of found could mean recovered.

Skeptic: But we've recovered artifacts...

Apologist: Well, that could be taken to mean rebuilt.

Skeptic: But wouldn't that be redundant of god?

Apologist: Redundancy =/= contradiction

Apologist 2: YES!!

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[Minimalist]

Alex conquered the city...he did not destroy it.

In fact...

In spring 331 he returned to Tyre, appointed a Macedonian satrap for Syria, and prepared to advance into Mesopotamia. His conquest of Egypt had completed his control of the whole eastern Mediterranean coast.

So a year after taking the city it is his headquarters. Not much of a "destruction" IMHO.

[Godscreated]

@ Darkstar, so you believe that when a thing is destroyed, and is replaced with a new thing, the old is still there. Now that is funny, you're just full of wit aren't you. So now that the World Trade Center has been destroyed and new buildings erected, we still have the old World Trade Center, see how crazy your reasoning is. The Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and a new Muslim worship center was built on the Temples foundations, so is this still the Jewish Temple. Go to Jerusalem and declare in the streets in front of it that it is the Jewish Temple, I would bet you wouldn't make it back home. We have artifacts from the World Trade and we know were most of the pieces are buried, and is recorded, does this mean when people of the future find these records they will have found the Trade Center, even if they dig it all up, it's not the Trade Center, just a pile of rubble. Get real please, all you're trying to do is be difficult.

[The Grand Nudger]

We have artifacts from the World Trade and we know were most of the pieces are buried, and is recorded, does this mean when people of the future find these records they will have found the Trade Center,

No GC, if people find records they have found records, if they dig up the rubble they have found the WTC, that's what the word "found" means....
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/find

[Darkstar]

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@ Darkstar, so you believe that when a thing is destroyed, and is replaced with a new thing, the old is still there. Now that is funny, you're just full of wit aren't you. So now that the World Trade Center has been destroyed and new buildings erected, we still have the old World Trade Center, see how crazy your reasoning is. The Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and a new Muslim worship center was built on the Temples foundations, so is this still the Jewish Temple. Go to Jerusalem and declare in the streets in front of it that it is the Jewish Temple, I would bet you wouldn't make it back home. We have artifacts from the World Trade and we know were most of the pieces are buried, and is recorded, does this mean when people of the future find these records they will have found the Trade Center, even if they dig it all up, it's not the Trade Center, just a pile of rubble. Get real please, all you're trying to do is be difficult.

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I'm thinking you took that joke a little too seriously, but okay. I'm willing to acknowledge that when the prophecy said Tyre it meant the phonecian Tyre only, and I was before, but it said that Tyre would never be rebuilt, so...what does that mean if a city was built nearby named Tyre? Either way, I would like to introduce this one:

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Ezekiel 28:24-26 24 “‘No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.

25 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. 26 They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their neighbors who maligned them. Then they will know that I am the Lord their God.’”

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So...Israel will not be bothered by its neighbors, and those who do will recieve divine judgement. It says that he will gather the people who have been scattered, so it is reasonable to assume this is referring to the current Israel. Thoughts?

[Minimalist]

@ Darkstar, so you believe that when a thing is destroyed, and is replaced with a new thing, the old is still there.

G-C, there are 26 destruction layers at Megiddo. For whatever reason people kept rebuilding on the same site. I consider this odd since many of the destructions were the result of military action or earthquake. This would indicate that the site was no where near as defensible as they thought plus it seems to be quite seimically active. Nonetheless, they kept rebuilding over and over. This does not stop people like you from trotting out your absurd book of revelation and calling it "Armageddon." ( Har Megiddo).

The concept of a "tel" in the ANE is well-established. For whatever reason people rebuilt on the sites. I admire the early effort at re-cycling but some of it crosses the line into bullheadedness.

In any case, Tyre is still Tyre. It does not have to be "found" because it never went anywhere. Everyone who wanted to go there...including jesus if you believe the stories, and I know you do...seem to have no trouble finding it.

[Ryantology]

It's funny how for 13 pages the destruction of Tyre and how permanent it was, was of the paramount importance, but when the 'Failed bible prophecies.com' arguement fails itself 50 different ways, all of the sudden nothing being argued is of any real importance.

It never really was of any importance because we have only ever been humoring you. You're the only one arguing that the prophecy is legitimate because the rest of us know that prophecies are not real.

Now 'proof' is the bench mark.. Well, that is what a prophecy is. It's proof that the God one (Ezekiel) is repersenting is legit. (That is why your peers have been desperatly trying to proove the prophecy wrong.)

Nobody is trying to prove it wrong; there's no evidence that it is right.

You operate in a fantasy land where we must assume everything in that book is truth and that it is on our backs to disprove what is in there. In the real world, the onus is on you to certify its contents independent of the Bible, with evidence not derived from it.

Well, we know that the city of Tyre was wrecked. There is plenty of evidence this happened, and the Bible is only one piece of it. We have only the Bible to say that God was responsible for it. What almost certainly happened is that some slave of Yahweh decided, long after Tyre fell, to retcon history and insert his evil skydaddy into the narrative to terrorize his fellow slaves of Yahweh.

[Minimalist]

You operate in a fantasy land where we must assume everything in that book is truth and that it is on our backs to disprove what is in there.

Oh, yeah....we've been down this road many times.......

[Godscreated]

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@ Darkstar, so you believe that when a thing is destroyed, and is replaced with a new thing, the old is still there. Now that is funny, you're just full of wit aren't you. So now that the World Trade Center has been destroyed and new buildings erected, we still have the old World Trade Center, see how crazy your reasoning is. The Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and a new Muslim worship center was built on the Temples foundations, so is this still the Jewish Temple. Go to Jerusalem and declare in the streets in front of it that it is the Jewish Temple, I would bet you wouldn't make it back home. We have artifacts from the World Trade and we know were most of the pieces are buried, and is recorded, does this mean when people of the future find these records they will have found the Trade Center, even if they dig it all up, it's not the Trade Center, just a pile of rubble. Get real please, all you're trying to do is be difficult.

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I'm thinking you took that joke a little too seriously, but okay. I'm willing to acknowledge that when the prophecy said Tyre it meant the phonecian Tyre only, and I was before, but it said that Tyre would never be rebuilt, so...what does that mean if a city was built nearby named Tyre? Either way, I would like to introduce this one:

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Ezekiel 28:24-26 24 “‘No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.

25 “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will be proved holy through them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. 26 They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their neighbors who maligned them. Then they will know that I am the Lord their God.’”

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So...Israel will not be bothered by its neighbors, and those who do will recieve divine judgement. It says that he will gather the people who have been scattered, so it is reasonable to assume this is referring to the current Israel. Thoughts?

This is not the first time you have brought this up, and in part you're right the Israel of today is the one being spoken of, you now need to go to the book of Revelation, you can find the answer there. You will find the answer about Israel when you learn about Christ's second coming, it is in their desperation and His second coming they realize who He is and find that peace.
While you are reading pay close attention to wormwood and it's description, then look up the Russian equivalent. But don't jump the gun read the book first.

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I knew you would jump the gun.

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Nobody is trying to prove it wrong; there's no evidence that it is right.
Well, we know that the city of Tyre was wrecked. There is plenty of evidence this happened, and the Bible is only one piece of it. We have only the Bible to say that God was responsible for it. What almost certainly happened is that some slave of Yahweh decided, long after Tyre fell, to retcon history and insert his evil skydaddy into the narrative to terrorize his fellow slaves of Yahweh.

Now you've made the assertion, prove what you have stated. The bold part is what I'm referring to.