Questions For You Non Believers

[The Grand Nudger]

Good thing that "waging a war" for equality wouldn't require you to wage a war on anyone's behalf but your own eh?

[Waratah]

Fairness is not the same as non-discrimination.

Sometimes it's fair to discriminate. Murderers, rapists, poison ivy, cyanide, that creepy girl who can't stop texting me for the past 8 months.

No argument, sometimes.

We all have things to discriminate against. I have no right to tell anyone how to discriminate, and they sure as hell don't have a right to tell me.

Based on that, waging war on any kind of discrimination is stupid.

You said sometimes first, which I agreed with. This sounds to me that you also agree that all discrimination is not okay. Now I am not talking about telling people what to discriminate against or not, but about government endorsed discrimination of the LGBT community which harms no one. If we did not "wage war"(for me it's arguing for a better world in my eyes) then just in my state it would still be illegal for people to perform a homosexual act(in the 1980's this was still the case, sad really). It's not stupid to try to change what you think needs to be changed in the world whether you are part of the community or not. I am not directly effected by this, but it effects my community in a negative way(mental health issues, drug abuse, suicides etc).

I have been discriminated before and it was a very difficult for me to cope. I myself felt totally powerless to try to change anything. Changes were made due to some strong people in my particular minority and also outside the community. Now I could be wrong but I don't think changes would have taken place without the help of people who were outside the community.

Unless you can give me a good reason, I don't want to wage any kind of ideological war for anybody else.

There maybe a good chance that you might feel pretty good about yourself by trying to help others.[/quote]

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

Fairness is not the same as non-discrimination.

Sometimes it's fair to discriminate. Murderers, rapists, poison ivy, cyanide, that creepy girl who can't stop texting me for the past 8 months.

No argument, sometimes.

We all have things to discriminate against. I have no right to tell anyone how to discriminate, and they sure as hell don't have a right to tell me.

Based on that, waging war on any kind of discrimination is stupid.

You said sometimes first, which I agreed with. This sounds to me that you also agree that all discrimination is not okay. Now I am not talking about telling people what to discriminate against or not, but about government endorsed discrimination of the LGBT community which harms no one. If we did not "wage war"(for me it's arguing for a better world in my eyes) then just in my state it would still be illegal for people to perform a homosexual act(in the 1980's this was still the case, sad really). It's not stupid to try to change what you think needs to be changed in the world whether you are part of the community or not. I am not directly effected by this, but it effects my community in a negative way(mental health issues, drug abuse, suicides etc).

I have been discriminated before and it was a very difficult for me to cope. I myself felt totally powerless to try to change anything. Changes were made due to some strong people in my particular minority and also outside the community. Now I could be wrong but I don't think changes would have taken place without the help of people who were outside the community.

Unless you can give me a good reason, I don't want to wage any kind of ideological war for anybody else.

There maybe a good chance that you might feel pretty good about yourself by trying to help others.

[/quote]

Can I be honest with you? I'm impressed by your ability to pick up the nuances when it comes to discussions like this. They are a lot more complex than some simple minds give them credit for.

As for the matter of difference, I think some discrimination is bad, where my self-interest is at stake. You also think some discrimination is bad where your self-interest is at stake.

But for others, I can't judge. Between the government and LGBT people, I'll let them handle it.

The problem is, if I'll take one side, the other side will get mad. And who am I to say one side is better than the other? Maybe the government is right this time...

At the end of the day, if you choose to help one side you hurt the other side.

From a morally nihilistic perspective, maybe the government is the best. We are in no position to know.

After all, in a hypothetical world, if we all fought for gay equality, and in this parallel universe, the aids rate was now 50% of the population, would the activism become an act of good or evil?

[Cinjin]

I respect anyone for their beliefs on one condition:
They don't try to force their beliefs on others. And that includes actively trying to prove that someone elses beliefs are wrong.

Got it. You reserve that right for yourself.

I came here with a simple question and was met with a barrage of hate. I am still convinced that, out there somewhere, there are Atheists that are decent people and that are able to gain my respect but you guys are just killing that hope.
ITT: Angry Atheists.

A guy who names himself Darnem (which is likely his panzy ass, passive aggressive way of saying "Damn Them") throws on an avatar of jesus christ, casts the first stone, complains about the responses he gets and then accordingly plays the hypocritical martyr. Anyone got a cross this guy can climb up on and nail himself to??

Somebody got a bottle of this shit handy??

[Darnem]

I guy who names himself Darnem (which is likely his panzy ass, passive aggressive way of saying "Damn Them")

I'd just like to clear this up. I didn't pick the name for any reason except for the fact that it was simply what came to my mind.
It's an interesting way of thinking about it though but unfortunately not correct.

Carry on.

[Angrboda]

Can I be honest with you? I'm impressed by your ability to pick up the nuances when it comes to discussions like this. They are a lot more complex than some simple minds give them credit for.

[The Grand Nudger]

After all, in a hypothetical world, if we all fought for gay equality, and in this parallel universe, the aids rate was now 50% of the population, would the activism become an act of good or evil?

Idiotic. But I'll go along with it anyway. An act of good. Legal equality is not a known means of transmission of HIV.

Now that I'm done with the nonsense above. All discrimination is a matter of self interest. The ease with which any group of people can be discriminated against is a measure of how quickly your favorite dog can turn on you. You betrayed yourself on this count with your quip about how we "discriminate" against those convicted of crimes in any case. You appeared to be of the opinion that this was kosher, and why? Well, because they committed crimes...not necessarily against you though eh? Clearly, you're capable of determining whether or not it's "fair" to discriminate against people without reference to self interest.

[ThomM]

Why do you push your religion of Atheism on others when there is no evidence that God doesn't exist?

First - atheism is NOT a religion - it is a lack of belief.

THe question is WHY do you push your religion of gods - when there is NO evidence that a god does exist - nor any reason to believe that anyone actually has ANY knowledge of a god

[HenWladFyNhadau]

Atheism isn't a religion. Try harder.

Yeah but don't Atheists know that you can't have morality without God? It seems like Atheists just want an excuse to not have to abide by God's moral code so they can do whatever they want.

You should go read about Secular Humanism. Most people/societies are capable of creating their own moral code.
We know there are consequences for the actions we take. Our consequences are just more realistic than yours...no fire and brimstone...or streets paved in gold.
We have individual consciences...We try not to hurt people we care about. Id mention we have a legal system but I'm not really a fan of its current state.
All the denominations of Christianity can't even decide which rules are the most correct or most important so atheists aren't really that much worse off in the morals department.
How many so-called Christians do we see in the media in the middle of sex scandals and other moral predicaments? With or without a god, people will do what they feel is in their best interests.

[Cyberman]

And another necropost rises to join the swelling ranks of the undead. It's almost as though we don't have a red banner in threads over thirty days old, isn't it?