A historical perspective: Dubya was a complete failure

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Iraq and Afghanistan. That's what she's talking about.

The war in Afghanistan began in 1978 and has not stopped since.

You are so goddamn wrong.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

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gave a rise to christian fundermentalism
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Got it backwards. It was more like fundamentalism gave rise to him.

[Minimalist]

Bush only started one war as far as I remember.

Aghanistan doesn't count? Kindly explain why you give dickhead a free pass for that one.

[Polaris]

Open a history book Dee Dee. We are currently in the fourth phase of a long, bloody civil war in Afghanistan. It did not become some new war just because the US entered the arena.

[DeistPaladin]

from my humble <europesn view:

Created a unstable hellhole in Iraq - which will probably be a future Iranian satilite.

Alienated Iran further by putting it into "Axis of Evil" making negotiations more difficult

Furthered radical jewish movements in Israel making further progress in the peaceprocess harder

Lying several european nations including UK, Netherlands and Poland into a war in Iraq

Creating a long term war in Afghanistan when it should have been a short war by giving to much trust to Pakistan who doublecrossed the west

Furthering market deregulations on the "non real economy" which caused the 2008 financial meltdown

gave a rise to christian fundermentalism

trashed the US image throughout Europe

created a political climate in which realities are ignored for sake of ideology

Pretty much the view here in America as well. But to be fair and mention the plus sides that came out of his administration...

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...OK, someone who's a W. Bush fan, help me with this one. Can you tell me one (1) thing he didn't completely ruin?

[Polaris]

from my humble <europesn view:

Created a unstable hellhole in Iraq - which will probably be a future Iranian satilite.

Alienated Iran further by putting it into "Axis of Evil" making negotiations more difficult

Furthered radical jewish movements in Israel making further progress in the peaceprocess harder

Lying several european nations including UK, Netherlands and Poland into a war in Iraq

Creating a long term war in Afghanistan when it should have been a short war by giving to much trust to Pakistan who doublecrossed the west

Furthering market deregulations on the "non real economy" which caused the 2008 financial meltdown

gave a rise to christian fundermentalism

trashed the US image throughout Europe

created a political climate in which realities are ignored for sake of ideology

Pretty much the view here in America as well. But to be fair and mention the plus sides that came out of his administration...

...

...

...

...OK, someone who's a W. Bush fan, help me with this one. Can you tell me one (1) thing he didn't completely ruin?

The fans would just tell you lies anyway, but part of the Patriot Acts are quite helpful if you attribute that the legislation to him.

He was also pretty good for the protection of minorities and refugees/asylum seekers, but then again he owed them. He also did more for the LBGT community than Obama.

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Open a history book Dee Dee. We are currently in the fourth phase of a long, bloody civil war in Afghanistan. It did not become some new war just because the US entered the arena.

Open a history book yourself. Bush invaded Afghanstan in 2001/2002...so yes that's another war of G W Bush.

I can't deny a connection with the taliban, osama, russia and all.

But I can't deny the connection between the world wars either, but I still am quite sure Hitler started the second and not Kaiser Wilhelm. Get it?

[DoktorZ]

The fans would just tell you lies anyway, but part of the Patriot Acts are quite helpful if you attribute that the legislation to him.

He was also pretty good for the protection of minorities and refugees/asylum seekers, but then again he owed them. He also did more for the LBGT community than Obama.

Can you explain these assertions with examples, please? I'm not trying to be an ass, just curious.

Z

[TaraJo]

He also did more for the LBGT community than Obama.

Bush wanted a constitutional amendment blocking same sex marriage; Obama publicly supported same sex marriage. Plus, Obama is the president who ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell (which was actually a pro-gay compromise at the time it was enacted). The only pro-GLBT thing I can say Bush did was that he didn't specifically the 'don't ask' part of 'don't ask don't tell.' Obama even passed the Matthew Shepherd Act (aka The GLBT hate crimes bill) in his first year in office and when Bush was given that opportunity, he was complaining that the legislation would infringe on Christians first amendment rights.

That doesn't even mention the indirect damage Bush did to the GLBT community. He gave rise to religious fundamentalists and gave them an opportunity to get their hands into government and religious fundamentalism has always been opposed to GLBT rights.

Make no mistake, we've made a lot more progress with GLBT rights in four years under Obama than we did under 8 years of Dubya. I'll admit, a lot of us aren't exactly happy that he's waiting so long to get certain things done (specifically ENDA), but if you look at the change under Obama vs the change under Bush, there's a huge contrast.

[DoktorZ]

^^^ this was my view, as well, but I wanted to give Polaris the benefit of providing counter-examples.

Considering Bush's close relations with evangelicals and the likes of Tony Perkins, I doubt he was capable of promoting LGTB issues, even if he wanted to.

Z