(December 30, 2012 at 8:08 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: (December 30, 2012 at 8:00 am)Brian37 Wrote: You are soooooooo picky. If I want to claim a pink unicorn started all this why should you expect me to prove that pink unicorns exist? You are such a party pooper. Next thing you are going to tell me is Santa doesn't exist.
I wouldn't say that.
Where would all the presents under the tree come from and who would eat those biscuits late at night?
See Santa is real.
We don't see santa at the north pole therefore he doesn't exist.
"atheism" has no evidence and has Facts against it, therefore "atheism" is false.
santa and "atheism" are both fairies, I agree.
I stick to God, to The Bible, to Reality.
Also since your signature bothered me let me destroy it,
Even if abiogenesis, evolution, the big bang theory and all the rest of science was fundamentally flawed it would not be an argument for gods existence
Big bang theory and BVG prove univese began to exist, therefore,
3 Indeinable Facts
1, Whatever Begins to exists has a cause
2, The Universe began to exist(infinite regression is impossible, big bang, and Borde, Guide, Valienkin Theorem make this an irrefutable Fact.)
3, Therefore The Universe has a Cause to it's existence.
The Cause of The Universe is,
-Spaceless and Timeless, since Created/Started/Caused Space and Time, can therefore exist without Space and Time.
- Since Spaceless and Timeless is Changeless
-Since Changeless is Immaterial, and since doesn't change, The Cause didn't start to exist, making it The First Uncaused Cause.
The First Uncaused Cause is The Cause of The Universe.
Now time to prove that this is without a shadow of a doubt God(which means whether "macro-evolution" happened or not, God exists and you have to accept that)
1. That fits God's description to a tee.
2. The First Uncaused Cause is The Direct Cause of The Universe, God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) is a First Uncaused Cause who Directly Caused The Universe.
3, Is Immaterial therefore can either be a Mind or Abstract Object such as numbers(The Mind is immaterial and we'll get to that later), Abstract objects cause nothing, therefore a Mind.
4, Fine Tuning, The Universe is so fine tuned for life that there's only 3 possibilities as to why,
Law, Chance, or Design. Cannot be law or chance, since Law can be different and Chance is Extremely Improbable that it's Factual it didn't happen that way, therefore Obviously Designed.
5, Only 2 types of causes. Accidential/Mindless or Intentional/Mind, Accidents require a prior cause, therefore cannot be accidential therefore caused on Purpose, God exists.
6, All "naturalistic" theories are Impossible.
1, "naturalism" is disproven by The Universe being caused so by default Supernatural and Immaterial exists.
2, Nothing existed and nothing causes nothing, the "nothing causes something" Quantum Mechanics argument proposed by w-child has been thrown in the fire with these facts,
1, The Quantum Vaccum isn't empty space.
2, Nothing cannot cause something with this fact,
The Cause of an effect must be equivelent or greater than it's effect,
Nothing has no properties, something has properties. so for nothing to cause something it would need the properties to do so, so if nothing caused something, it needs to properties of something rendering it to be something instead of nothing! and if nothing caused something it would need the properties from something eternal rendering it again not nothing.
Nothing can only cause, nothing.
and the "universe caused itself" argument(whoever posed this argument needs their liscense revoked, is automatically void as if the universe caused itself it would have already needed to exist!.
And lastly as proven in #5 can only have been caused on purpose.
There is no naturalistic explanation as 1, Supernatural exist, 2, it's impossible for nothing to cause something and 3, it is an impossiblity for The First Uncaused Cause to cause on accident.
#7, Creation ex nihilo proves The Bible is even more Scientifically Accurate and Correct, Creation ex Nihilo proves God exists and God is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit who is 1 God that is 3 Persons.
Dualism
1. If the mind was the brain or any material then everything we do, all thoughts, actions, plans, will, cognitive functions etc would be accidential, rendering free will nonexistent. Free Will exists therefore the mind cannot be material.
you therefore have 3 choices,
1, No Director(mind), rendering nerve signals random, which is false since we do have a mind and do direct our nerve signals, that is a fact.
2, Material Director which is false since it would be the same as no director because there would be no direction to energy signals.
3, Immaterial Director where nerve signals can be directed.
2. material is mindless, when you laugh, do your cheeks or hands, or face know what your laughing about? no, they're just a piece of meat, it knows nothing, such as your eyeballs, fingers etc.
3. Immaterial Properties exist, Love, Emotions, Abstract Objects(Numbers), Data, Feelings, Beliefs, Delusions, Fantasies, all exist, yet aren't material.
For example, what is material about the data you're reading off this sentence? Physically it's energy signals hitting your screen, now unless you say the data isn't real, then it's Immaterial.
4, Thoughts are not material, and if they are material whatever causes them cannot be material.
Think of a pink giant elephant, now if your head was cut open would we find that elephant? no. can anyone hear what you're thinking? nope, it's not material.
When you talk to someone, are you talking to a person or just flesh? if you say the latter than you might as well say you can talk to the wall and be perfectly fine.
5. Color is not material.
6, Here's an experiment, Hit your hand on the desk, feel the pain? now it is a fact that you are not your hand, if we cut off your hand and the nerves in it you would be incapable of feeling it. this means the reason you feel your hand is because of a connection to you(can be brain or Immaterial Spirit, I'm allowing both for experiment)
Now lets assume your mind is your brain as most "atheist" assume, and the brain is the connection to the hand, now if your brain is what is allowing you to feel your hand, then that is impossible, if you're your brain, when your hand gets hit, you'd feel the pain in your head, not your hand. now you cannot say the brain sending energy signals to the hand is causing the pain since you aren't your hand! we can cut it off and you won't be able to feel it anymore.
The Only Possibility is that your hand is connected to your brain and you are an Immaterial Substance that can feel the hand, otherwise there is no possiblity of feeling your hand.
7, Third, I believe it is important to note that some of the world’s foremost neuroscientists have believed that the mind is immaterial. These neuroscientists have been well aware that stimulating the brain can produce some intriguing psychological results. One of the pioneers in the field of neuroscience was Wilder Penfield. In his fascinating book The Mystery of the Mind, he writes the following:
When I have caused a conscious patient to move his hand by applying an electrode to the motor cortex of one hemisphere, I have often asked him about it. Invariably his response was: ‘I didn’t do that. You did.’ When I caused him to vocalize, he said: ‘I didn’t make that sound. You pulled it out of me.’ When I caused the record of the stream of consciousness to run again and so presented to him the record of his past experience, he marveled that he should be conscious of the past as well as of the present. He was astonished that it should come back to him so completely, with more detail than he could possibly recall voluntarily. He assumed at once that, somehow, the surgeon was responsible for the phenomenon, but he recognized the details as those of his own past experience. (76)
Penfield goes on to note that “There is no place in the cerebral cortex where electrical stimulation will cause a patient . . . to decide” (77). This is consistent with my point that choices are undetermined events with a teleological explanation. In light of his work as a neuroscientist, Penfield concludes the following: “For my own part, after years of striving to explain the mind on the basis of brain-action alone, I have come to the conclusion that it is simpler (and far easier and logical) if one adopts the hypothesis that our being does consist of two fundamental elements” (80).
Read more: God and Mind/Body Dualism | Reasonable Faith
8, Last but not least, Scientific Fact that every cell in our bodies die and regenerate with new cells, that by every 7 years we are completely new material beings. now I know I'm the same person I was in 1998, I'm the same guy who's been through 2 1/2 new material bodies already yet I'm the same mind, therefore it is a Scientific Fact that human beings are Immaterial beings/Spirits controlling material bodies.
"materialism", "atheism", "agnostics", etc are all dead already without even going into "macro-evolution.
big bang PROVES God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) exists
if evolution didn't happen then "naturalism" is dead, we've always been humans, we started to exist at once, which means Created, whether you like it or not. "macro-evolution" is a man made myth, therefore God(The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit) Exists
abiogenesis proves Resurrects are possible,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOPneSAh3jw
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