sex before marriage

[Minimalist]

Let's hear some words of "wisdom" from a real Saudi cleric.... you know, one of the rock-throwing, hand-chopping, camel-fucking assholes who are scared shitless of women seeing his little dick and laughing at him!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/worl...le6951888/

Delivering his traditional Friday sermon, Grand Mufti Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al-Sheik said authorities must adhere to sharia, or Islamic law, by ensuring men and women are separated as much as possible at all times.

Apparently the old fuck is worried that Saudi men are such barbarians that the mere sight of women will throw them into a sexual frenzy.

Pompous ass.

[ThatMuslimGuy]

minimalist may i ask the relevence of this on a thread that is asking muslims personal experiences on sex b4 marriage?

[Minimalist]

You can ask.

I think the Grand Mufti answered better than I ever could.

[The Grand Nudger]

Response: Then if it reflects poorly on all of us, then you shouldn't take issue with islam, but your own beliefs as well. So crticquing others when you have the same problem makes no sense.

The trouble here, I'm afraid, is that I don't have any. How something might reflect poorly on something that doesn't exist is a mystery. Neither you or I, by the way, have this problem, personally - but that doesnt excuse your religion for not being capable of addressing it (or you for excusing your religion, and lets be clear, if you weren't interested in excusing your faith for whatever unpalatable thing the faithful do...well.... I wouldn't really have anything to pick at) - nor would an appeal to hypocrisy mean anything at all in the first place. Try harder.

[Al-Fatihah]

The trouble here, I'm afraid, is that I don't have any. How something might reflect poorly on something that doesn't exist is a mystery. Neither you or I, by the way, have this problem, personally - but that doesnt excuse your religion for not being capable of addressing it (or you for excusing your religion, and lets be clear, if you weren't interested in excusing your faith for whatever unpalatable thing the faithful do...well.... I wouldn't really have anything to pick at) - nor would an appeal to hypocrisy mean anything at all in the first place. Try harder.

Response: To the contrary, you either belive or don't believe in God and you live by certain values and principles. So you do have an ideology. Therefore, since an ideology can be judged based on things that it does not teach, then according to your own logic, the raping of boys reflects your own ideology. So it's your weak hypocrisy that continues to be exposed. Debunked as usual.

[The Grand Nudger]

Right, I don't believe in gods (but tell your boy not to take it personally). I do live by certain values and principles, I do have an ideology, but I thought we were talking about beliefs? Sure, my ideology could be judged by what it does not teach, but since not raping boys features prominently, and Im not in the business of raping boys - further, that its my own, and no one else can lay claim to it (nor can I claim anyone else for it) you're still left with no point.

You've appealed to hypocrisy again (and like most who do so, you've failed to demonstrate the hypocrisy that would not make your point if it existed in the first place) Do you understand this?

[Al-Fatihah]

Right, I don't believe in gods (but tell your boy not to take it personally). I do live by certain values and principles, I do have an ideology, but I thought we were talking about beliefs? Sure, my ideology could be judged by what it does not teach, but since not raping boys features prominently, and Im not in the business of raping boys - further, that its my own, and no one else can lay claim to it (nor can I claim anyone else for it) you're still left with no point.

You've appealed to hypocrisy again (and like most who do so, you've failed to demonstrate the hypocrisy that would not make your point if it existed in the first place) Do you understand this?

Response: An ideology is a set of values. So you do have one. And since your logic is that an ideology can be judged by acts it does not preach, then raping boys reflects your ideology. So it is you with no point, except that you admit to believing in a perverted ideology.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh for fucks sake....lets put this one to the knife because you've crammed so much garbage in here it's impressive.

An ideology is a set of values. So you do have one.

Non sequitur. Whether or not an ideology was a set of values the conclusion that I have one doesn't follow from this. Further, it;s disappointing to see you blathering on about this - what happened to my beliefs- the ones you decided to inform me that I had?

Get your shit together.

And since your logic is that an ideology can be judged by acts it does not preach,

You mean that since the logic you're going to assign to me and then argue against? Perhaps you've forgotten how this all began, in your zeal to excuse your faith by way of smearing shit on others...but let me refresh your memory. You seemed to be of the opinion, pages ago, that the prosecution of a certain boyfucker showed that islam was just. You opened the can - you just don't like what's come out. If the actions of people (a system of law and justice) or how well a faith conforms with those systems shows that some faith is just, then they would be equally capable of showing that it weren't (when people did unjust things - or when that faith did not conform to that system), which brings us back to said boyfucker in the first place.

That's your baby, not mine, so man up and own it.

then raping boys reflects your ideology. So it is you with no point, except that you admit to believing in a perverted ideology.

You keep talking about my ideology as if you had any idea what it was. My ideology requires no belief. You keep referring to some flaw you seem to perceive in whatever you imagine my ideology is as though it would matter.
Being clearly incapable of grasping the futility of appealing to hypocrisy, I think you might want to reassess your ability to "debunk" things.

So, whats next?

[Al-Fatihah]

Non sequitur. Whether or not an ideology was a set of values the conclusion that I have one doesn't follow from this. Further, it;s disappointing to see you blathering on about this - what happened to my beliefs- the ones you decided to inform me that I had?

Get your shit together.

Response: A weak rebuttal. An ideology is a set of values so stating that you have values does mean you have an ideology. So your blabbering is senseless. Get it together.

You mean that since the logic you're going to assign to me and then argue against? Perhaps you've forgotten how this all began, in your zeal to excuse your faith by way of smearing shit on others...but let me refresh your memory. You seemed to be of the opinion, pages ago, that the prosecution of a certain boyfucker showed that islam was just. You opened the can - you just don't like what's come out. If the actions of people (a system of law and justice) or how well a faith conforms with those systems shows that some faith is just, then they would be equally capable of showing that it weren't (when people did unjust things - or when that faith did not conform to that system), which brings us back to said boyfucker in the first place.

That's your baby, not mine, so man up and own it.

Response: To the contrary, it was you who made the foolish claim that actions that are not in accordance to what something teaches reflects its teaching, to justify your flawed arguments. The problem is that using your own logic, raping boys is also a reflection of your own ideology, whether it preaches it or not. So stop condoning raping little boys and perhaps you'll have some credibility.

You keep talking about my ideology as if you had any idea what it was. My ideology requires no belief. You keep referring to some flaw you seem to perceive in whatever you imagine my ideology is as though it would matter.
Being clearly incapable of grasping the futility of appealing to hypocrisy, I think you might want to reassess your ability to "debunk" things.

So, whats next?

Response: You keep trying to doge the flawed logic you presented, which is actions can reflect an ideology, despite it not being taight. Instead of dropping the idiocy, you continue to spout it. That only continues to show that your ideology condones raping boys. So what's next?

[The Grand Nudger]

A person committed to checking off their list of logical fallacies with every single post thinks I've offered a weak rebuttal.

The things that people who self identify with any given ideology do -does- reflect upon that ideology. Nothing fallacious in that. When I start condoning raping little boys, you can bitch about my condoning raping little boys (but even then...it'll still be an appeal to hypocrisy)

If you spent some time demonstrating how it was flawed, instead of throwing a tantrum because I think islam is full of shit (as our your claims about islam) then we might be able to have a conversation that isn't entirely composed of me reminding how hard you've failed at the whole logic song and dance.