A Miracle!!

[rjh4 is back]

Are you saying no one would die for a lie?

I am saying that it is quite unlikely for someone to die for a lie while knowing it was a lie. I do think it possible for people to die for a lie when they are convinced it is the truth. But to die for a lie when you know it is a lie? Why would someone do that? What could they possibly gain from it?

[theblindferrengi]

If people know it is a lie, then it is kind of an ineffective lie, and it has defeated the purpose of lying.

The people who didn't know it was a lie would be the ones who died for it.

[Violet]

Well, say you are a Roman soldier... and this lie is keeping your wife and kids well fed and rolling in money (There is even support for them after you die). Wouldn't you perpetrate the lie to keep them alive and well... even if it meant your death?

So while perhaps in the minority... people could die for a lie

[Eilonnwy]

Are you saying no one would die for a lie?

I am saying that it is quite unlikely for someone to die for a lie while knowing it was a lie. I do think it possible for people to die for a lie when they are convinced it is the truth. But to die for a lie when you know it is a lie? Why would someone do that? What could they possibly gain from it?

People would die for a lie all the time. First, people could be protecting something, like a child. A person could be tortured into admitting a lie only to die and end the torture. However, I'm certain you're insisting that a person would not willingly die for a lie and without coercion. I will also accept the premise I assume you are espousing, that these people were not tricked (Therefore, I won't argue they were delusional and wrong, and believed they were right even though they were wrong). False confessions happen all. the. time. There was somewhere around 200 confessions in the case of the Lindbergh kidnapping. Jon Mark Karr confessed to killing JonBennet Ramsey. False confessions are painfully common, even if the result would be death. Some come from police interrogation, but not all, as shown in the examples I gave. There is possibly a psychosis involved, which deals with the need for attention, even negative attention. So your premise is demonstrably false. Furthermore your questions demonstrate an argument from incredulity, the inability to imagine that someone would die for a lie.

[theblindferrengi]

If you were a roman soldier, you would not know it was a lie. You would know what your superiors told you was the truth, and they would not want you to know it was a lie.

[solarwave]

Does your PC work, or are you imagining that? What about PET scans?, were the scientists imagining both the anti-matter that found the tumor and the tumor they subsequently removed? Does your microwave heat up your food or are you imagining that too?

All these things are possible because Quantum Mechanics is true, if it wasn't... none of your electronic devices would work. Say goodbye to circuit boards and everything that requires them. Say goodbye to Xrays, Microwaves, PET Scans and many, many other things would simply not work.

Maybe the scientists are lying? Maybe there is an explanation of why these things work which we havn't found out yet that makes more sense and it is just a coincidence. You know the same way people who are healed are lying or its some big coincidence everytime.

You would need more than stories - if you are really to believe that anecdotal evidence is sufficient then why aren't you also a Muslim and a Buddhist? They have plenty of anecdotal evidence too! What about people who have felt better after having their body thetans removed? You should probably become a scientologist too... after all, there is so much anecdotal evidence! Oh, what about all the people who hav e seen Ghosts? Or talked to the dead? What about Alien investigations? We better believe all of it because the anecdotal evidence is just too fucking impressive right?

When I hear personal stories of these things I will rethink how link it in to what I believe. When a Hindu girl I know told me about an apprent miracle she saw I took it into account of my worldview since I had no reason to think she was lying etc. I think I would tend to 'true until proven false' rather than 'false till proven true'. Of course Im not open to any random story, but if it seems like it could be true maybe it should be considered.

And on the whole placebo thing, you cant test God like a kind of magic which does whatever you want.

---

How not that well? someone you know, someone you have heard of, someone you met once or twice?

Someone I know. I have met her a few times, but those few times lasted a long time. If that makes any sense lol.

Ok have you seen the opticians report? was she wearing the wrong type of spectacles? had she previously had a head injury from birth onwards?

No. They would have to someone elses glasses from them to make that much difference lol. From birth I believe.

What is the time period from preying to her english GCE? did she have extra tutoring during this period? did she prior have any external "special needs" tutors? did she have a "scribe" while she sat her exam?

Is she a christian/believer? (this question is important)

Did she/her family/pastor/someone else tell you this story?

I think the point is that it would be impossible to do the GCSE and get that grade with her condition even considering those things you said. Yeah shes a christian. She told me.

[Meatball]

It's OK solarwave. People don't believe my story about Odin granting strength to my friend either.

[AngelaRachnid]

What is the time period from preying to her english GCE? did she have extra tutoring during this period? did she prior have any external "special needs" tutors? did she have a "scribe" while she sat her exam?

Is she a christian/believer? (this question is important)

Did she/her family/pastor/someone else tell you this story?

I think the point is that it would be impossible to do the GCSE and get that grade with her condition even considering those things you said. Yeah shes a christian. She told me.

No think the point is how long since the preying to the exam?, 5 seconds, 20 minutes? 5 days? 7 years?

How long?

A

[Edwardo Piet]

Maybe the scientists are lying? Maybe there is an explanation of why these things work which we havn't found out yet that makes more sense and it is just a coincidence. You know the same way people who are healed are lying or its some big coincidence everytime.

Science has evidence.

EvF

[solarwave]

AngelaRachnid: I don't know lol

EvidenceVsFaith: What is science? Isn't it just an idea in the mind of men in white lab coats? How would people like you or me know if they were lying about the details? The effect may be the same, but the way it comes about may be a lie or they may be hallucinating and got lucky that everything that does work works.