God is above conventional reason

[Baalzebutt]

So faith is about deserving to go? So when Jeffrey Dahmer converted to xtianity before he was killed, he now deserves to go to heaven?

I believe this is what people on forums call a "straw man". I never said anything like that. Especially when you read my post in the other thread where I spoke of doing good deeds in the name of God. Dahmer was a terrible man: he maimed and murdered, obviously breaking commandments and going against Christianity (and almost any other religion he could've been part of)

But if he had faith, and all of his sins were forgiven, what, then keeps him out of heaven? He fulfilled all the biblical requirements for salvation.

I am not putting out straw man arguments. I am simply taking your arguments to their logical conclusion. If it applies to one, it applies to all or you get tagged for special pleading.

[Zone]

I think the essential idea that God would offer total forgiveness to anyone who would ask for it is one of Christianities good points. You don't get anything like that in Islam or Judaism what happens is you die and God judges you on how good you were. In Hinduism and Buddhism it's all about karma. So Christianity that's a damn fine offer there. What matters is whether it's actually true or not of course.

[Baalzebutt]

I think the essential idea that God would offer total forgiveness to anyone who would ask for it is one of Christianities good points. You don't get anything like that in Islam or Judaism what happens is you die and God judges you on how good you were. In Hinduism and Buddhism it's all about karma. So Christianity that's a damn fine offer there. What matters is whether it's actually true or not of course.

Well, lets assume for a moment it is true. Do you really want to worship a god who would allow someone like Dahmer into heaven even if he did fulfill all the requirements?

God is supposed to be just. That, my fine friend, is anything but.

[CleanShavenJesus]

I think the essential idea that God would offer total forgiveness to anyone who would ask for it is one of Christianities good points. You don't get anything like that in Islam or Judaism what happens is you die and God judges you on how good you were. In Hinduism and Buddhism it's all about karma. So Christianity that's a damn fine offer there. What matters is whether it's actually true or not of course.

Well, lets assume for a moment it is true. Do you really want to worship a god who would allow someone like Dahmer into heaven even if he did fulfill all the requirements?

God is supposed to be just. That, my fine friend, is anything but.

Strawmanning.

Again, why would Dahmer be permitted into heaven? "If he fulfilled the requirements" he wouldn't have murdered innocent people.

[Zone]

Well, lets assume for a moment it is true. Do you really want to worship a god who would allow someone like Dahmer into heaven even if he did fulfill all the requirements?

If Dahmer repented all his sins and accepted the eternal salvation of Gods loving grace and all that business then he would be a reformed character like Darth Vader at the end of Return of the Jedi, therefore no longer evil. In Islam he would just go into the fire of hell and that would be the end of it.

God is supposed to be just. That, my fine friend, is anything but.

It's a question of taste I guess, you may prefer the Islamic approach. But I like the idea that even the very worst of people would have a chance to wipe their slate clean the offer is there even if they refuse it.

[Baalzebutt]

Well, lets assume for a moment it is true. Do you really want to worship a god who would allow someone like Dahmer into heaven even if he did fulfill all the requirements?

If Dahmer repented all his sins and accepted the eternal salvation of Gods loving grace and all that business then he would be a reformed character like Darth Vader at the end of Return of the Jedi, therefore no longer evil. In Islam he would just go into the fire of hell and that would be the end of it.

God is supposed to be just. That, my fine friend, is anything but.

It's a question of taste I guess, you may prefer the Islamic approach. But I like the idea that even the very worst of people would have a chance to wipe their slate clean the offer is there even if they refuse it.

I guess the whole idea that someone so...."evil" (for lack of a better term)..could stand side by side with those who have lived "good" lives just doesn't sit well with me.

[Zone]

I guess the whole idea that someone so...."evil" (for lack of a better term)..could stand side by side with those who have lived "good" lives just doesn't sit well with me.

We could have turned out "evil" as well had we been born into different circumstances and/or we had some kind of malformation of the brain. But there would still be the offer purification there in the Christian system and you have the freewill to reject the offer. Once you reject it you get whats coming to you in hell. So the system seems kind of fair to me, as long as "good" non-Christians can be judged on how good they were.

[popeyespappy]

[catfish]

When people can pray for Dalhmer, Hitler, the devil and Michael Jackson, then I would say they "get the message"....

[Baalzebutt]

I guess the whole idea that someone so...."evil" (for lack of a better term)..could stand side by side with those who have lived "good" lives just doesn't sit well with me.

We could have turned out "evil" as well had we been born into different circumstances and/or we had some kind of malformation of the brain. But there would still be the offer purification there in the Christian system and you have the freewill to reject the offer. Once you reject it you get whats coming to you in hell. So the system seems kind of fair to me, as long as "good" non-Christians can be judged on how good they were.

By these standards though, if I live a good life but don't believe, I still go to hell. And while I understand the nature/nurture component of this, it is still a very unjust system designed and maintained by a supposedly omniscient god who knew what I would do in the first place.