Religious people have you ever tried praying?

[Minimalist]

And in every war that has been fought,why were the soldiers always told that the god is on their side,so god has it's spacial country here on earth has he? I wonder which one is.

God seems to favor the side that shoots faster and straighter.

[TheViolentFemme]

The term "atheist" simply means that you lack belief in a god/gods. There is no connection with personality. Some are nice, some are well-accomplished, some are fuck-ups. It doesn't matter.[/b]

You may define the term "atheist" as "simply lacking belief in a god/gods", but if you studied the lives of you and all the atheists you know, you would see that atheism is a distinct culture with its own norms, values and beliefs that go way beyond simply believing there are no Gods.

Peoples beliefs about the world determine their values. That is the source of values: beliefs. Your culture that you see as just being incidental, Pink Floyd, marijuana, etc, is to a very large degree an outgrowth of peoples theological beliefs. You can hide behind a definition of atheism that is designed to obscure this, but you cannot do it and be honest at the same time.

Ok, I first have to say, seriously, Pink Floyd? You couldn't have come up with a better representative of atheism like, I dunno, Bad Religion?

But, on the more pressing note, are you seriously suggesting that because people belong to a group they all share exactly the same beliefs, values and morals? Every single one of them? It's painfully obvious that isn't true. A crhistian can commit murder, showing they don't value human life which, by you theory, goes against the very order of the universe. I imagine that in your "studies" of atheists, there were approximately two participants, because that's the only way I can fathom your ideas would show to be true. Maybe if we "studied" atheists like you do we'd find them all the same, but if you were an atheist like most of us, or even someone remotely open-minded, you'd see that people are indivuals, even if they happen to share ONE belief with someone else.

[jstrodel]

But, on the more pressing note, are you seriously suggesting that because people belong to a group they all share exactly the same beliefs, values and morals? Every single one of them? It's painfully obvious that isn't true. A crhistian can commit murder, showing they don't value human life which, by you theory, goes against the very order of the universe. I imagine that in your "studies" of atheists, there were approximately two participants, because that's the only way I can fathom your ideas would show to be true. Maybe if we "studied" atheists like you do we'd find them all the same, but if you were an atheist like most of us, or even someone remotely open-minded, you'd see that people are indivuals, even if they happen to share ONE belief with someone else.

strawmen. of course I said none of that. You think that you can disprove what is true for 60%-80% of a group by appealing to the 20%. Who cares about the 20%, in the 60%-80% you are going to see what the primary result of the belief system on people is.

go on a christian forum. see how different it is from here. "individual" means you want to hide your eyes from what effect your beliefs have on others.

---

And in every war that has been fought,why were the soldiers always told that the god is on their side,so god has it's spacial country here on earth has he? I wonder which one is.

God seems to favor the side that shoots faster and straighter.

I would say that God seems to favor the theists. Look at who is in power and has been for thousands of years. Christians and Muslims, mostly

[TheViolentFemme]

But, on the more pressing note, are you seriously suggesting that because people belong to a group they all share exactly the same beliefs, values and morals? Every single one of them? It's painfully obvious that isn't true. A crhistian can commit murder, showing they don't value human life which, by you theory, goes against the very order of the universe. I imagine that in your "studies" of atheists, there were approximately two participants, because that's the only way I can fathom your ideas would show to be true. Maybe if we "studied" atheists like you do we'd find them all the same, but if you were an atheist like most of us, or even someone remotely open-minded, you'd see that people are indivuals, even if they happen to share ONE belief with someone else.

strawmen. of course I said none of that. You think that you can disprove what is true for 60%-80% of a group by appealing to the 20%. Who cares about the 20%, in the 60%-80% you are going to see what the primary result of the belief system on people is.

go on a christian forum. see how different it is from here. "individual" means you want to hide your eyes from what effect your beliefs have on others.

My point was that there are groups for a reason, because they are already like-minded. BUT there are subgroups in every group, there are subgroups to each of those subgroups, and there are individuals who belong to multiple groups where sideline ideas (like those who favor Pink Floyd, as if that matters) do NOT overlap. Yes, basic theological ideas COULD influence other ideals, but atheism is such a huge umbrella term, technically a lack of theological beliefs, encompassing so many different people, from soccer moms to teenage punkers, that you can't say with confidence that even half of them share a general belief system besides simple atheism.

I don't know what difference I'd really see on a christian forum, are you suggesting they'd be more polite? Or less? Or more like-minded? I imagine those differences simply come from the lack of people holding other beliefs. I know I wouldn't want to go to one, I'd most likely be ridiculed, probed, and cyber-flogged for being the unbeliever.

I actually try not to hide my eyes from anything in human nature. I'm actually planning on majoring in social psychology, so I understand the power of group identities. But the fact remains that people hold their own beliefs, and an umbrella term like "atheist" is a way of reducing human individualism into a nice pretty simple package that is easy to understand and rationalize, rather than the true complexity of the human mind.

[Minimalist]

God seems to favor the side that shoots faster and straighter.

I would say that God seems to favor the theists. Look at who is in power and has been for thousands of years. Christians and Muslims, mostly

Xtians are on the way out pretty much everywhere and the muslims? Fuck them.

Maybe you should sign on with allah since you seem to like barbaric pricks?

[FallentoReason]

I have prayed often, and recieved many responses. Once I prayed and asked God for a car, and two days later, I got a 2002 Toyotta Corrolla. Other times I have prayed, asking God for different things.

Yikes! Seems like you're not a Christian, according to our resident True Christian™ Drich:

Again God is not you personal genie that trades wishes for service or good deeds...

http://atheistforums.org/thread-15257-po...#pid349174

"Why doesn't God answer prayers?"

He does, but according to His will and not your own for He is not your personal genie.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-15257-po...#pid349113

God is not a magical genie who's job it is to grant you wishes.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-14138.ht...ight=genie


My response to you regarding "wishes" is that the things you've asked for are nothing special. I know of dozens upon dozens of people who have gotten a car without prayer. So what that you sat down and asked for something that anyone can get?

[jstrodel]

My point was that there are groups for a reason, because they are already like-minded. BUT there are subgroups in every group, there are subgroups to each of those subgroups, and there are individuals who belong to multiple groups where sideline ideas (like those who favor Pink Floyd, as if that matters)

You gotta be kidding me. You don't think it matters if people do drugs? You will say "not all people that listen to pink floyd do drugs". This shows that you are unconcerned with the people that do. Look at this very thread as an example. What is it that makes turning a blind eye to human misery so enlightened? Why do you sit on your high horse because you have pointed out to me that some people that listen to pink floyd use drugs? What makes you so righteous? I know people that have died from using drugs. I used to be part of the music scene, I know all about that crap. Most of the people use. Why doesn't that matter to you?

do NOT overlap. Yes, basic theological ideas COULD influence other ideals, but atheism is such a huge umbrella term, technically a lack of theological beliefs, encompassing so many different people, from soccer moms to teenage punkers, that you can't say with confidence that even half of them share a general belief system besides simple atheism.

How many soccer moms are atheist? What percentage of soccer moms are atheist? Maybe 10%-15%? What percentage of punkers are atheist? Like 90 something percent? Now, what percentage of soccer moms are addicted to drugs? What percentage of punkers are addicted to drugs? When you factor in the straight edge people who used to do drugs, what percentage are addicted to drugs. A lot of them. A compassionate person would care about that. And a compassionate person would notice that a lot of the punk bands are connected to communist organizations and mix Marxism into their music. And that a lot of atheism is not transmitted to young people through a soccer mom, it is transmitted to them through a Marxist who is trying to remove religion from America for political reasons.

I don't know what difference I'd really see on a christian forum, are you suggesting they'd be more polite? Or less? Or more like-minded? I imagine those differences simply come from the lack of people holding other beliefs. I know I wouldn't want to go to one, I'd most likely be ridiculed, probed, and cyber-flogged for being the unbeliever.

There is no comparison. You can see immediately the effect that atheism has on people. No absolute morals, community is centered around pornography and making fun of people. Absolute morals, community is centered around service to others and love. Might sound hard and fast but it is true, the average atheist is a selfish person. I know, I was one.

I actually try not to hide my eyes from anything in human nature. I'm actually planning on majoring in social psychology, so I understand the power of group identities. But the fact remains that people hold their own beliefs, and an umbrella term like "atheist" is a way of reducing human individualism into a nice pretty simple package that is easy to understand and rationalize, rather than the true complexity of the human mind.

So how do you talk about groups of people, large groups of people that seem to have very similar problems associated with them. Such as "hippie" if I can be so cruelly un-politically correct and describe them with a single word, tend to abuse drugs at much, much higher rates than other people. They also tend to be atheists. Does it really make you a kinder person to refuse to acknowledge the role that what is common among this group may indeed play a role in the common suffering of this group?

I understand that people are more than labels, but what is your point? Obviously to call someone "a hippie" or "a Marxist" or "a technocrat" does not fully capture everything going on. But if you want to see something interesting, look at the culture of the Universities in the post-1960's, post-hippie era. Yes, these people were atheists. Yes, they were for science. But they were also Marxist. And they had a vision of weakening the church through using science and the academy to transmit their vision.

Now you might say "I am not a technocrat, I follow the teachings of Derrida and the continental tradition, I am very critical of science". Whatever. You can do this sort of stuff till the cows come home.

The reality is that there are certain groups of people that are trying to do things in the world, and if you see what they are doing, it is sort of scary. If you say "that is just one individual", well, you can close your eyes and see the world like an idealistic 19 year old.

There is struggle to see who is in power. Who will control America. Will America be socialist? Will it be Christian? Will science rule? Who will be in control? Like other wars, this war is being fought dirty. The left is doing everything it can to get people to follow its ways, even if it has to tell them that pornography is ok and sexual promiscuity and drug abuse are ok and all that stuff is all individual choices. It is just politics to them. I have known people like that, serious Marxists. They could care less. Like Christopher Hitchens. There is a culture war going on. Who will control America in the future. It won't be "individualism" and it won't have some flaky new age aura. It will have to do with power.

The statement "atheism is not a religious belief atheism is a lack of belief" is not really true. Atheism in the United States is a movement to unseat the religious authorities from power. It is absolutely a political movement, it is tied to Marxism to a great degree and the radical left. You don't see any of the four horsemen of the new atheism condemning Christopher Hitchens for his Marxism.

Atheism is a political movement that has, in the last 40 years, relied heavily on drugs and sexual immorality to recruit followers. This is a fact, if you deny this, you are lying. If that is the sort of politics you want to be apart of and you believe that is the moral high ground, that is up to you, but that is a fact.

[TheViolentFemme]

My point was that there are groups for a reason, because they are already like-minded. BUT there are subgroups in every group, there are subgroups to each of those subgroups, and there are individuals who belong to multiple groups where sideline ideas (like those who favor Pink Floyd, as if that matters)

You gotta be kidding me. You don't think it matters if people do drugs? You will say "not all people that listen to pink floyd do drugs". This shows that you are unconcerned with the people that do. Look at this very thread as an example. What is it that makes turning a blind eye to human misery so enlightened? Why do you sit on your high horse because you have pointed out to me that some people that listen to pink floyd use drugs? What makes you so righteous? I know people that have died from using drugs. I used to be part of the music scene, I know all about that crap. Most of the people use. Why doesn't that matter to you?

do NOT overlap. Yes, basic theological ideas COULD influence other ideals, but atheism is such a huge umbrella term, technically a lack of theological beliefs, encompassing so many different people, from soccer moms to teenage punkers, that you can't say with confidence that even half of them share a general belief system besides simple atheism.

How many soccer moms are atheist? What percentage of soccer moms are atheist? Maybe 10%-15%? What percentage of punkers are atheist? Like 90 something percent? Now, what percentage of soccer moms are addicted to drugs? What percentage of punkers are addicted to drugs? When you factor in the straight edge people who used to do drugs, what percentage are addicted to drugs. A lot of them. A compassionate person would care about that. And a compassionate person would notice that a lot of the punk bands are connected to communist organizations and mix Marxism into their music. And that a lot of atheism is not transmitted to young people through a soccer mom, it is transmitted to them through a Marxist who is trying to remove religion from America for political reasons.

I don't know what difference I'd really see on a christian forum, are you suggesting they'd be more polite? Or less? Or more like-minded? I imagine those differences simply come from the lack of people holding other beliefs. I know I wouldn't want to go to one, I'd most likely be ridiculed, probed, and cyber-flogged for being the unbeliever.

There is no comparison. You can see immediately the effect that atheism has on people. No absolute morals, community is centered around pornography and making fun of people. Absolute morals, community is centered around service to others and love. Might sound hard and fast but it is true, the average atheist is a selfish person. I know, I was one.

I actually try not to hide my eyes from anything in human nature. I'm actually planning on majoring in social psychology, so I understand the power of group identities. But the fact remains that people hold their own beliefs, and an umbrella term like "atheist" is a way of reducing human individualism into a nice pretty simple package that is easy to understand and rationalize, rather than the true complexity of the human mind.

So how do you talk about groups of people, large groups of people that seem to have very similar problems associated with them. Such as "hippie" if I can be so cruelly un-politically correct and describe them with a single word, tend to abuse drugs at much, much higher rates than other people. They also tend to be atheists. Does it really make you a kinder person to refuse to acknowledge the role that what is common among this group may indeed play a role in the common suffering of this group?

I understand that people are more than labels, but what is your point? Obviously to call someone "a hippie" or "a Marxist" or "a technocrat" does not fully capture everything going on. But if you want to see something interesting, look at the culture of the Universities in the post-1960's, post-hippie era. Yes, these people were atheists. Yes, they were for science. But they were also Marxist. And they had a vision of weakening the church through using science and the academy to transmit their vision.

Now you might say "I am not a technocrat, I follow the teachings of Derrida and the continental tradition, I am very critical of science". Whatever. You can do this sort of stuff till the cows come home.

The reality is that there are certain groups of people that are trying to do things in the world, and if you see what they are doing, it is sort of scary. If you say "that is just one individual", well, you can close your eyes and see the world like an idealistic 19 year old.

There is struggle to see who is in power. Who will control America. Will America be socialist? Will it be Christian? Will science rule? Who will be in control? Like other wars, this war is being fought dirty. The left is doing everything it can to get people to follow its ways, even if it has to tell them that pornography is ok and sexual promiscuity and drug abuse are ok and all that stuff is all individual choices. It is just politics to them. I have known people like that, serious Marxists. They could care less. Like Christopher Hitchens. There is a culture war going on. Who will control America in the future. It won't be "individualism" and it won't have some flaky new age aura. It will have to do with power.

The statement "atheism is not a religious belief atheism is a lack of belief" is not really true. Atheism in the United States is a movement to unseat the religious authorities from power. It is absolutely a political movement, it is tied to Marxism to a great degree and the radical left. You don't see any of the four horsemen of the new atheism condemning Christopher Hitchens for his Marxism.

Atheism is a political movement that has, in the last 40 years, relied heavily on drugs and sexual immorality to recruit followers. This is a fact, if you deny this, you are lying. If that is the sort of politics you want to be apart of and you believe that is the moral high ground, that is up to you, but that is a fact.

LOL, ok got it. Thank you for spewing self righteous drivel out of your ass for this enormous post that proves absolutely nothing. For future reference, it's quicker just to say "I don't want to discuss, I want to preach and make myself feel superior and correct." This is me leaving this conversation that will never go anywhere. *cue my "welcome to the internet" speeches By the way, I'm not leaving because I "know I'm wrong" though I'm sure you'll convince yourself of it. I'm leaving because I know enough to know that there are certain people in this world that would NEVER admit they could possibly be mistaken, and I seem to have found one more of them.

Preachers be preachin'

Peace, I'm out, bitches

[Phish]

Peace, I'm out, bitches

omg you said bitches you will burn in hell for this!!

[Confused Ape]

I used to spend 30 hours a week praying and seeking God. I would go in the presence of God which I could tangibly feel. I have seen the presence of God. I have made the presence of God the center of my life for different periods.

Have you seen this topic I made? Have Switched To My 'New Age' Perception. The two videos could give you some useful information about how the human brain works.