Atheists; what do you base your morals on?

[Tonus]

God was fully aware that change would take a long time and advised people accordingly.

Oh, I dunno. The Bible tells of how the Egyptians held an entire nation as slaves, and god "advised" the daylights out of them and freed millions from bondage. That would be an excellent lesson on how god viewed slavery, except that the very people he freed from it had no issues continuing the practice with god's consent. Someone who could visit plagues upon a country, create a dry path across the sea, and then dump that sea on the heads of a pursuing army should not have had to wait for people to stop keeping slaves on their own.

[The Grand Nudger]

All your references relate to people who are already slaves. None of them are about turning free people into slaves.

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Lay that aside for a moment, because it's not really all that interesting that you're horridly wrong. What is interesting, is that you felt compelled to imagine something else, specifically, that buying or owning a slave was not slavery - that somehow- as long as you didn't put the the shackles on yourself, it was kosher, it was diferrent. That's your humanity rising up in spite of your christianity. Congratulations.

[FragileTag]

Common sense

[Ryantology]

God was fully aware that change would take a long time and advised people accordingly.

Yeah, because there's no way he could have changed that instantly or anything. It must suck being all-powerful and beyond time and still at its mercy.

Not to mention, he outright orders the murder of people for crimes far less serious than slavery, such as not worshiping him or picking up sticks on the sabbath. All throughout the Old Testament, God visits swift and disproportionate retribution for the silliest of infractions. He never shows any kind of understanding. The idea that 'it would take time' is absolutely alien to the impulsive tyrant of the Old Testament. At no point, anywhere in the Bible, is slavery mentioned as a negative practice, nor is it ever condemned by God. Instead, God practically gives Moses directions to Slavemart so he can make sure he gets all the slaves he wants.

It is an undeniable fact that God approves of, and explicitly encourages slavery.

[smax]

[quote='smax' pid='417673' dateline='1363749083']quote]Completely false. The Bible does not advocate slavery. No where does it say to go out and enslave others. It does however regulate an existing evil to make it more humane. Considering that over 1/3 of people in the ancient world were slaves, the practice wouldn't disappear over-night. God was fully aware that change would take a long time and advised people accordingly.

As with many controversial verses and subjects in the bible, the path of Christian apologists is to ASSUME a less likely yet far more socially acceptable interpretation of a matter that the bible has a very clear position on.

Let's examine the most compelling verses on the subject:

Exodus 21:20
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

This verse alone defeats your entire argument. If god truly opposed slavery, he would not then refer to a slave as another person's property, unless it is also your position that god is subject to man's laws, perceptions, and social practices.

While we are on the subject of laws, this verse happens to be a legal decree from god.

With that in mind, is it your position that god watered down his own laws because he didn't believe in his own full authority over men? Was god incapable of inforcing his own preferences? So much so, in fact, that he was forced to allow beatings that may take several days to recover from?

There are other old testament verses which not only clearly advocate slavery, but also minimize the value of human life, such as Ex 21:32, Lev 22:10. But none more clearly advocate and even promote and encourage slavery moreso than the following:

Leviticus 25:44-46
As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.

There you have it. Not only does god offer up people as slaves, but he entices the practice by pointing out the benefits and then clarifies that his own people (the Israelites) are to be treated far better under conditions of slavery.

In fact, while god advocates and encourages permanent and inherited slavery with non-hebrews, he calls for a more progressive form of slavery with hebrews, placing time limits and liberty benefits on their terms of slavery.

Nothing quite warms the heart and inspires civil practice so much as a god who advocates racially motivated and permanent slavery.

But wait, maybe he changed his mind after shedding his own blood, or that of his only son. There are certainly a few Christian apologists that offer that explanation. Sadly, they too are wrong and are exercising the same selective interpretation of scripture. Observe god's position post-new covenant:

Colossians 4:1
Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

Ephesians 6:9
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Well, at least he wants the beatings to stop. That's something.

Anyway, at the end of the day, it's clear that the bible advocates slavery. And the notion that god was a reluctant advocate who was simply trying to regulate it while secretly and progressively trying to rid humanity of the practice is ridiculous.

This paints god not only as cowardice, but also powerless and only slightly influencial over his own creation.

The truth is, god had nothing to do with it. Clearly Hebrew men made the laws to serve their own self interests, which explains the extremely racist and completely insensitive perspective of the old testament position on the matter.

There is no other reasonable explanation.

[catfish]

The truth is, god had nothing to do with it. Clearly Hebrew men made the laws to serve their own self interests, which explains the extremely racist and completely insensitive perspective of the old testament position on the matter.

There is no other reasonable explanation.

What the fuck then? You just nullified your diatribe against god there...

[Esquilax]

The truth is, god had nothing to do with it. Clearly Hebrew men made the laws to serve their own self interests, which explains the extremely racist and completely insensitive perspective of the old testament position on the matter.

There is no other reasonable explanation.

What the fuck then? You just nullified your diatribe against god there...

Not really. Those that believe are bound to this slavery condoning god, but it's our position that he's fictional anyway. Nothing's nullified; the book was written by ancient people who wanted things their way, but the morality of the god character, though fictional is still questionable enough that it makes one's head tilt to realize people worship it.

[smax]

What the fuck then? You just nullified your diatribe against god there...

Except that it wasn't against god, it was against the bible. One doesn't attack the invention, one attacks the inventor.

[catfish]

What the fuck then? You just nullified your diatribe against god there...

Except that it wasn't against god, it was against the bible. One doesn't attack the invention, one attacks the inventor.

The Bible didn't invent anything...

[smax]

The Bible didn't invent anything...

In a way, I agree. The bible is mostly a collection of slightly modified plagiarisms of other cultures stories and myths.

So, in a sense, you are correct. The bible didn't invent anything truly original.

However, the Hebrews did re-invent god in their writings as someone who cared only about their culture and cause.

In that sense, you are incorrect about the bible and invention.