Ex-"New Atheist", Now Christian

[pocaracas]

Welcome!
We hope you stay around, read other threads and participate there!
That's what a forum is for!

Now, about your "conversion"... have you given any thought into the question of "why christianity"? Why not islam? Why not buddhism?
Emotions are emotions, not "evidence of deity interaction with humans"... I hate when people redefine things to fit with their delusion...

[Kayenneh]

Hello and welcome to AF! ^_^

[thesummerqueen]

I think I had an extremely simplistic view of Christianity when I was an atheist. I thought what most atheists think, such as refuting the idea that Christ died for our sins and denying the historicity of the resurrection.

Yes, I think most Atheists take this simplistic view.

It's pretty simple to not believe in something for which there's no evidence.

[The Grand Nudger]

Meh, didn't notice the post was in the intro thread. Disregard my questions, welcome aboard.

[Love]

Welcome aboard, Love. You have no idea how long it's been since I last said something like that.

Thanks for sharing your interesting conversion story; I prophesy many fruitful discussions to come using that material alone.

A couple of points I'd like to pick up on for now, if I may. You mention an evil presence which took away your sense of morality etc. Could you expand on this, was it something you felt inside yourself, something you were becoming, or some kind of external perception?

You go on to say that "love, charity, morality and goodness are inexplicable by human reason and material reductionism". I'm a little confused here - are you trying to say that human feelings and emotions cannot be explained in human terms? I'm sure a case can be made to account for each of those things in purely evolutionary ways, both biologically and especially societal.

As for McGrath and Lennox being "much brighter" than Prof Dawkins (please, he earned that honorific and it's only common courtesy to use it): all I can say in answer to this is that it would make no difference who is the brighter. What matters, in fact the only thing that does matter, is the work, not the individual.

So, with all that said, I hope you enjoy your stay.

Hello Stimbo,

Thank you for the welcome.

Regarding the evil presence, I do not want to expand too much because it was an extremely terrifying experience. The best way that I can describe it is that my perception of people changed to the point where they seemed like lifeless objects devoid of any meaning. I felt as though I was losing my morality and also my capacity to empathise. It was not a conscious presence (like the way Hollywood endeavours to project the idea of Satan/demons), but rather a presence that completely infiltrated my mind and transformed my perception of reality in a rather grotesque and malevolent way. It was the most intense experience of my life (and my life has not been easy).

Even Professor Dawkins admitted in one of his interviews that "I fully accept that science will never be able to explain love". Indeed, a case could be made for love, morality et cetera in purely naturalistic terms. I am also sure that cognitive neuroscientists could derive mathematical models and neural correlates from the monoamine system that "prove" love can be reduced to biochemistry. What people seem to miss with material reductionism is the actual conscious experience of the person. Do you view yourself as a person or simply a physical structure of subatomic particles (or both)? Science isn't anywhere being close to explaining how subjective consciousness works (and never will be in my view), nor is it able to explain the totality and complexity of love.

McGrath and Lennox are also professors, in which case they deserve the honorary title also.

Cheers.

[The Grand Nudger]

You can't explain it (in this case, apparently, love and consciousness) - ergo spirits.

[thesummerqueen]

Why is it that just because we don't have all the answers RIGHT NOW there must be divinity?

[Cyberman]

Fair enough about your evil presence story. I'm sure someone will want to chew through whatever you want to share on that and other points in the main body of the forum.

As for your Richard Dawkins quote, it is sort of the done thing here to cite sources for these things. It's not a hard and fast rule per se, merely a courtesy. You'd be surprised at how many mined quotes we get; it's something of a hobby of mine to chase the sources of them to see how much substance they may (or may not) carry.

Regarding McGrath and Lennox, I was aware of the unintentional hypocrisy of my previous post only some time after I made it; it was born out of a combination of real-life distraction and unfamiliarity with those individuals and was not deliberate. As I have since learned, John Lennox is among other things a mathematician and thus deserving of the title. Whether Alistair McGrath is similarly deserving is perhaps arguable, since his field is apparently "theology, ministry and education". As such I would agree that any professorial title he may hold is indeed honorary. Either way, I reiterate that what matters is the integrity of what they produce and not the character of the individuals that produce it. Even the best-regarded academics and scholars are expected to show their work.

[tokutter]

YYEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAWWWW...man there are some people on here that are going to have some fun with you



oh and welcome


TIP: SOON AS YOU START DOING THE "CHRISTIAN SHUFFLE"......YOU'RE GOING TO GET HAMMERED.

[Love]

How do I know that it was God/Jesus? As this question has been asked a few times, I will go ahead and answer it those of you who asked it. All I can say is the following: I "know" that is was the divine presence that provides unconditional love, justice, charity, peace, morality, truth and goodness in everyday human consciousness (for the people who are strong enough to accept it and embrace it).

In terms of "cherry picking" from The Bible, I have already stated that The Bible is not important to me. The Bible to me is a powerful book abused by religious institutions to control the masses; it is filled with mythical theology, and can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways. I am much more concerned with the historical Jesus and the impact he has had on human civilisation. God/Jesus is a personal experience for me, not something that I derive from The Bible or an orthodox tradition. Nobody dictates to me what I should hold as true.