Pedophilia; I can't accept it.

[Arellius]

Because I've gotten more into researching religion, I've come across some shocking details. Allot of you might already know this and it probably has already been discussed a million times, however I couldn't resist starting a topic about it.

I had a conversation with a colleague of mine who is Islamic. So I asked her ''Was Aisha really between the ages of 6 and 9 ?!'' And she confirmed, but she told me Muhammad had married her so she would not get raped. Because that was very common back then. It's now unclear to me whether or not they had intercourse, but still... A grown man marrying a child as young as 9 is just gross. Putting it mildly. It can be argued that ''times were different'' back then, but then I think they were pretty ignorant to the biological functions of humans, especially women. It is WORLD NEWS when a grown man (21+) has intercourse with another human being that's even younger than a teenager. Today, the whole world would be sickened at such news.

Another detail I came across (Christianity) is that Joseph was said to be in his 40's ? I read other articles where Roman Catholic priests argue that he was 90. Well fine, between the ages of 40 and 90. Then I read that Maria was just hitting her teens ?! That she was between the ages of 12 and 14. And she bares a child. Not only that........

1. So God knows how we will all develop in the next 2000 years to come, how death could be wished upon a man who'm is in an intimate relationship with a barely-teenage girl.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, God's child, Mary was a virgin, I know. [sigh] But still, they were husband and wife. If a man showed up at my door with his barely-teenage wife, I'd beat the shit out of him then call the police.

''But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife.''

Yes she was his wife, and it is such a damn shame that Freud wasn't around at that time. He could of talked to Joseph about his dream.

2. Not to mention all those infamous and disgusting priests that we all know of. I work at Madame Tussaud and there is a wax figure there of Paulus Johannes II - I chuckle each and every time a little boy sits on the seat next to him to make a picture.

3. Times might of been different back then, however. Couldn't God of made an 11th Commandment ? ''Thous shalt not bed minors.'' Or something like that.

God knew what was coming, we all detest pedophiles, horrible people! So why let it go on for so long if ''Times were different'' back then ?! I'm 100% with Christopher Hitchens on God being a tyrant on that one.

4. I believe it was a man made decision for adults to not have intercourse with children. Mankind developed and eventually (finally) saw the disgusting aspect of grown men having sex with girls between the ages of 6/7 and 13/14.

Let's just say mankind had not come to it's senses and did not develop on the subject of sex and intercourse, what kind of suck world would this be ?! And God would just watch...

I tried to look it up but I couldn't find any information which says that the Bible prohibits underage sex. It was common for 13 year old girls to wed and bed back then, but seriously...With a 35+ year old adult !!?? Sickening. And the world [mankind] today would think so too.

I don't think, after what I read and found out, that I could ever accept the religions containing these stories. No matter what the underlying lesson is, underage sex is sick. Period.

I'm open to all info, maybe someone could give some more info on the subject or how it was exactly. Theories are good, facts are even better...

[Neo-Scholastic]

Take it up with some of your fellow atheists that consider pedophilia an alternate lifestyle. I'm sure you can find the thread.

[Minimalist]

This guy is no friend of mine.

[That guy who asked questions]

As an atheist I would not put blame on a being that doesn't seem to exist. I find most morality to be subjective and not objective. Pedophilia, in a basic psychological sense, is the result of cultural differentiation. Even today most indigenous tribes practice what we refer to as pedophilia in modern civilized societies. Therefore the morality behind this action is subjective, but I think the reason modern societies see pedophilia as an immoral behavior is due to the knowledge of human anatomy and development. In modern society we know the consequences that result from sex with an underage human and because of the negative effects we look at it as immoral and revolting, whereas the cultures that don't have access to the medical knowledge don't see it any differently than I would see being sexually active with an adult female. I don't endorse pedophilia by any means, i'm just simply giving reason as to why we see it as immoral and others do not.

If the question is, "Why would god not prevent the sexual immorality of pedophilia" then my answer would be, that god is a man-made construct. However, most Christians would probably say, "out of context!" or "God's world was perfect, it's because of our sin that we have immorality."

[Godscreated]

It's been far less than a century that men and women married in their teens. I had an aunt that married at thirteen and I know many people who had relatives who married around that age.
Pedophilia comes from a warped mind, and it does not include just one person through marriage, it is an attack on many young girls and boys and violent in nature. This in no way describes what you've read in scripture or was told about in scripture, no one knows the age of Joseph and the oldest age I heard speculated was 29. Most Biblical scholars believe Joseph died a few years before Jesus started His ministry, Jesus had several brothers and sisters, so I do not see how Joseph could have been very old. Just because some men in the scriptures had children at very old ages doesn't mean it was common place.

[Arellius]

In modern society we know the consequences that result from sex with an underage human and because of the negative effects we look at it as immoral and revolting, whereas the cultures that don't have access to the medical knowledge don't see it any differently than I would see being sexually active with an adult female. I don't endorse pedophilia by any means, i'm just simply giving reason as to why we see it as immoral and others do not.

This was a very good point, your post in general too. Thanks, that does make sense, however another complex question popped into my head.

Why would God then provide us [Western Civilization] with the immorality and revulsion against pedophilia, but not some other parts in the world where they don't have access to the knowledge we have ?

That is very, very strange to me. God created man, but he would not create them equal. These are the kind of things that almost make me a certified anti-theist.

It's been far less than a century that men and women married in their teens.
In my opinion mankind came to their senses a little too late on the whole subject of underage sex, and to me including marriage. 13 is way to young and a 20+ year old in these times would be sick in his head to want to marry a barely teenager that age. But better late than never I suppose.

This in no way describes what you've read in scripture or was told about in scripture.
I'll admit that this is a pretty good point, indeed the scriptures don't portray violence. But it doesn't make it any less gross to think that 35+ year old's had intercourse with girls under the age of 14-15. Just because it's in a book that people believe only to be for good still doesn't make it all right in my opinion. It makes it confusing even; Pedophilia without violence still is, like you so well put it, revolting. To put it mildly.

Nevertheless Godschild, thanks for the reply and explanation..

[Sal]

A child who doesn't understand sex is unable to give any meaningful consent. Around these parts the cut-off age is 16 years for sexual consent (but 18 years for being considered an adult), if I remember correctly. Anything else, I consider rape, under the Law.

I think organizations like NAMBLA miss this point about being able to give meaningful sexual consent. I mean, does a child who hasn't reached puberty and "completed" puberty understand what it means to have sex? I realize that children understand love, but I differentiate between those two. IDK the attitude in global culture is concerning this, but as long as there is meaningful consent between two people, I don't see the problem. Pedophilia is definitely NOT meaningful consent because of lack of sexual nature in the child.

[Godscreated]

This in no way describes what you've read in scripture or was told about in scripture.

I'll admit that this is a pretty good point, indeed the scriptures don't portray violence. But it doesn't make it any less gross to think that 35+ year old's had intercourse with girls under the age of 14-15. Just because it's in a book that people believe only to be for good still doesn't make it all right in my opinion. It makes it confusing even; Pedophilia without violence still is, like you so well put it, revolting. To put it mildly.

Nevertheless Godschild, thanks for the reply and explanation..

Your welcome.
As you said in the OP, that was a long time ago and a different culture, actually many different cultures, and most practiced the same thing child marriage. Well that's the way we see it, and I too think it's a bit gross. Let's consider the times and culture, there are more women in the world than men and this was most likely the case then as well, also it was a stigma upon a woman if she did not have children. Even if she had children and had no males it still was a stigma upon her even though we know the male partner is responsible for the sex of a child. Man if they knew that back then things might have been very different. Back on subject. I believe this is why men married more than one wife in many cases, at least the ones who could afford to, and married young women (teens if you will) so that sons were born to carry on the family and it's name. Even though today we put a lot into family, then family was everything to them, I don't believe we can understand completely how important. Scripture does not condone multiple wives, God set up marriage as one man and one wife and after several thousand years I believe we now know why, for our sanity. So people apparently saw that the more opportunities for male children the better, again a very different time and culture.

[Arellius]

A child who doesn't understand sex is unable to give any meaningful consent.

And that is why it is up to us, the adults, to look out for them and keep them away from these horrible manipulative creeps.
How awful would this statement be, coming from an adult, in western civilization; ''Oh it's alright, I can marry her because she is 14.'' When I see anything in this context on the news or read it in the papers it saddens me, as well as many others. And I'm sure that 99.9% of the people I know [religious and non-religious] would feel the same way.

When a child doesn't understand something, to me that doesn't mean it doesn't give any meaningful consent. It is because it's a child that the thought of a man being a pedophile is sickening. It's a shame to the people who do want to make a difference through for example, Catholicism, they have to deal with the inevitable subject of pedophilia. I believe people want to do good, that's fine, but I would not in a million years trust a Catholic priest to watch my kids, when I have'm. Not that Joseph Fritlz was a Catholic Priest but he too, for 24 years seemed like the nicest neighbor, until...Well you know. Kinda drifting of here but I think you get the point.

[NoraBrimstone]

You know, I had sex very young. That was the norm where I grew up. As an adult, I know I was ready for that, the boys were mostly around my age and it was all fun and that. However, there were also times when I had sex with older men. At the time I liked that, it made me feel special. But now, I feel physically sick at the thought of those older men. They took advantage of me and I didn't even realise it till they were long gone. I sometimes consider reporting them to the Police, but what evidence do I have now? It would be a complete waste of my time.