The most important reason anyone is an atheist

[Brian37]

I've gotten the argument "It's just God speaking in different languages". No. All human overlap of good behavior and bad behavior, cruelty and compassion, are all a result of our NATURAL existence, and are NOT the result of a club label.

We're a result of natural existence (the universe) but what is natural existence the result of? All things that begin to exist are caused by something that exists, it can't be what began to exist either circular logic gets you nowhere.

Prove it. Not with mental masturbation or "POOF" or "my pet god did it".

Ok if all things need a cause then any cause can fill in that gap.

"My invisible pink unicorn farted the universe out of it's ass"
"Allah farted the universe out of his ass"
"Thor farted the universe out of his ass"

Or, maybe a god is not required to explain a finite or infinite universe. Never thought about that did you?

Your pet god claim explains absolutely nothing. It is merely a childish cartoon guess and a gap naked assertion.

Quantum Mechanics and modern science is still trying to figure out that, but neither require a magic super hero. Why does reality bother you that much?

Stephen Hawkins, "A GOD IS NOT REQUIRED" But what the fuck would he know?

[pocaracas]

I've gotten the argument "It's just God speaking in different languages". No. All human overlap of good behavior and bad behavior, cruelty and compassion, are all a result of our NATURAL existence, and are NOT the result of a club label.

We're a result of natural existence (the universe) but what is natural existence the result of? All things that begin to exist are caused by something that exists, it can't be what began to exist either circular logic gets you nowhere.

Are you saying you can only plug the whole of ignorance about how the big bang came about with the mega-complex, non-created "god-plug"?
Is it difficult to come up with any other explanation?
I know it's difficult to observe any pre-big-bang events... maybe even impossible. Even theorizing about such an event is complex and leads to wild speculation, but it can't be that difficult to contemplate the possibility that something happened without any thought or intent being poured into it?
Is it?

[Brian37]

If you can accept that a hurricane is not caused by Posiden, and can accept that Thor does not make lightening, then what we do not know about "before" would not need a god either, finite or infinite. You simply don't want to face that your pet god is merely your own childish wishful thinking.

---

We're a result of natural existence (the universe) but what is natural existence the result of? All things that begin to exist are caused by something that exists, it can't be what began to exist either circular logic gets you nowhere.

Are you saying you can only plug the whole of ignorance about how the big bang came about with the mega-complex, non-created "god-plug"?
Is it difficult to come up with any other explanation?
I know it's difficult to observe any pre-big-bang events... maybe even impossible. Even theorizing about such an event is complex and leads to wild speculation, but it can't be that difficult to contemplate the possibility that something happened without any thought or intent being poured into it?
Is it?

Please, really? Is it that hard to accept that things can and do happen without thought behind them? Hurricanes don't have brains, so why would an atom or an entire universe need a programer or god?

I get just as pissed at atheists who buy si fi version of a "god" calling "all this" a "simulation". It still woo crap, and still has the same baggage as standard god myths in infinite regress.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I didn't assume materialism to begin with, because I was a small child who didn't know about gods. As I grew older, religious claims and god-fervor just seemed bewilderingly pointless. I never made a choice to be an atheist. Again, if you held a gun to my head and told me that I'd better believe or else, I would of course try mightily, but I'd fail, just as you would fail if you were asked to believe in Allah or Zeus. You and I are both in serious danger of Islamic hell if Muslims are right, but that idea worries neither of us.

If you're comparing God as in the eternal creator to Zeus a created being then you don't have a good understanding of what God is meant to be to begin with. Even if you want to be an atheist you need study your theology a bit first. But at least you're claiming that you choose atheism as a belief which is what it is, even if it was essentially a reaction against the fundies or whoever who are in a way determining what you believe.

Tosh.

I was born an atheist. Are you saying I studied 'my theology' [?????????] in the womb?

Come on man, speak sense!

[pocaracas]

I get just as pissed at atheists who buy si fi version of a "god" calling "all this" a "simulation". It still woo crap, and still has the same baggage as standard god myths in infinite regress.

Ah... the Matrix/Holodeck Effect...
More research ($€£) required into this theory!

[Sword of Christ]

Prove it. Not with mental masturbation or "POOF" or "my pet god did it".

I can't prove it anymore than you can prove the opposite so atheism has to refuted by logical deduction. You can't prove any specific God or religion true but refuting atheism is a good start, once that's out the way.

Ok if all things need a cause then any cause can fill in that gap.

"My invisible pink unicorn farted the universe out of it's ass"
"Allah farted the universe out of his ass"
"Thor farted the universe out of his ass"

Wouldn't that really be essentially what atheism claims to be true? That the universe is a byproduct of some meaningless unintentional cause without a purpose? Or would the fart be specially crafted with precise buttock clenching and wafted a certain way? The fact you starting with an uncaused cause is a start you accept that part of it whatever you want to call it. If you call it God it's less silly sounding.

Or, maybe a god is not required to explain a finite or infinite universe. Never thought about that did you?

Why couldn't the universe we observe now have been infinite? Seems to be making life more complex than it needed to be by being finite and brought into existence and something must have caused that to happen. And of course you have all the finely balanced natural laws all allowing for development of supreme levels of physical complexity. Life of course being the most complex thing there is. You're saying *boom* and there it all is? No questions asked?

Your pet god claim explains absolutely nothing. It is merely a childish cartoon guess and a gap naked assertion.

He would if he exist explain literally everything as he is the explanation for literally everything. If the explanation for literally everything isn't God then what it is? You're saying there isn't one? You will always need an explanation you know things can't just happen.

Quantum Mechanics and modern science is still trying to figure out that, but neither require a magic super hero.

Quantum physics made the universe? Isn't quantum physics a natural part of the universe itself you're trying to explain? You may as well say gravity made the universe electromagnetism. No these are all part of the package.

[quote]Why does reality bother you that much?

Why does the reality of God bother you?

Stephen Hawkins, "A GOD IS NOT REQUIRED" But what the fuck would he know?

Well he wouldn't know he just has a belief that has nothing to do with scientific field of expertise. Atheism isn't the same thing as science you know. There were plenty of great scientific minds greater than Stephen Hawkins who were theists so you can't play that card.

[Brian37]

I get just as pissed at atheists who buy si fi version of a "god" calling "all this" a "simulation". It still woo crap, and still has the same baggage as standard god myths in infinite regress.

Ah... the Matrix/Holodeck Effect...
More research ($€£) required into this theory!

Sorry, woo is woo crap is crap.

[Chas]

Prove it. Not with mental masturbation or "POOF" or "my pet god did it".

I can't prove it anymore than you can prove the opposite so atheism has to refuted by logical deduction. You can't prove any specific God or religion true but refuting atheism is a good start, once that's out the way.

You haven't refuted atheism; you can't refute a non-belief except by proving your claim.

[Lemonvariable72]

That's perfectly fine but only works when you're assuming materialism to begin with, there isn't a good reason why you have to assume that to begin with though it's just you're own opinion really.

Okay then follow the steps. First prove there is a god, then that it is your god.

[Sword of Christ]

You haven't refuted atheism; you can't refute a non-belief except by proving your claim.

You're not claiming that God didn't create the universe then? If you genuinely don't know and have no bias you can't be refuted only schooled in the ways of God, and then you'll come to a life changing understanding. Unless you resist but you can only do this by making the counter claim which is what you're really up to. You put up all these smoke screens and play around with words.