Is There a Point To Living a Moral Life?

[Whateverist]

I don't want you to fuck my partner, so I won't fuck yours. I don't want you to steal my goods, so I won't steal yours.

But if you wanted to fuck and steal and you knew you could get away with it what's stopping you?

Same thing that stops you .. personal preference. (That and I'm no fucking thief.)

In general I respect people and empathize with them. I don't seek to concretize a moral code. I allow my gut to be my guide and I'm not in prison yet. You'd be surprised how little draw there is to do evil for evil's sake.

[Kayenneh]

BTW the sheep had it coming.

Ewe!

[Tonus]

Back to the subject at hand! Given the natural cynicism and nastiness of Atheists [here] in general... is there any reason to live a "Moral" life?

It's an effective way of getting people to lower their guard.

[Angrboda]

William Lane Craig makes a standard argument in many of his debates that atheism can't explain the existence of objective moral evil. And he may be right, for any number of reasons. Ethics poses some interesting conundrums for the secular thinker, and it's not clear that anybody has actually nailed it. Like many questions in philosophy, the answers may never be forthcoming. But here's the problem. The answers from Christianity aren't any better, and in many ways are worse. They've been trying for 2,000 years and failing to come up with a valid reason why positing a god in any way rescues the foundation of ethics. So instead, they practice this little argument from misdirection, asking you to solve a major problem in philosophy when the answer that they have isn't any more valid or compelling than the secular alternatives. Not that they won't claim to have solved it, just as many secular thinkers such as Sam Harris have claimed to have solved it for secularism. You don't get points for claiming to have the answer; you get points for actually showing your work. And Christians like ronedee will tirelessly repeat the same failed arguments that Christians have been making for centuries, shitting on the chess board, and crowing about their grand victory. But then, Christians have ignoring reality down to a science.

For what it's worth, I rather suspect ronedee's persecution complex may have some basis in fact. But people don't hate him because he's a Christian. They hate him because he's a jerk.

[Kayenneh]

For what it's worth, I rather suspect ronedee's persecution complex may have some basis in fact. But people don't hate him because he's a Christian. They hate him because he's a jerk.

Bingo.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

From what I've read so far, it seems like it's a good thing many of the religious are religious, if they weren't they really might start doing harmful things to others simply because they no longer believe in the threat of hell.

[FallentoReason]

From what I've read so far, it seems like it's a good thing many of the religious are religious, if they weren't they really might start doing harmful things to others simply because they no longer believe in the threat of hell.

Back when I was a Christian, one of my close Christian friends once said "I don't understand atheists... If I was an atheist I'd be trying to have as much sex as possible before I die".

I'm happy to say his religious shackles are still tightly placed around his legs!

[ronedee]

Thanks to everyone for your... eh... Honest replies!

I particularly like yours "Fallen". I think you should be [back] on our side of the street!

And as far as my motives? They are also honorable.... and speaking of honesty, face it Maggy... I was considered a jerk by you, before you ever even laid those big brown eyes on me!

Most of you did answer the first question. And interestingly enough, society (or pack) seems to form "reactions" to actions perpetrated! So, if society broken down (total chaos) then for many of you, so would your moral compass. That's probably true for a lot of Christians too! But when we (Christians) are held to a higher source, society is not our standard to live by.

And generally speaking....we would die for basic moral values, and what is right.

But, I didn't really get the answer to the more important second question; Where is the line drawn?

Sure we can talk about moral matters in life or death situations that we would ALL fight side-by-side for! But what about the little things? The passing little lies, and cheats! The things we all take for granted.

Jesus tells us, "If you are honest in small matters, you will be honest in big matters."

And Jesus more than anything else tells us about the evil of our "sins of omission"...aka "what we fail to do."

Personally, this is a slippery slope for me, and I'm sure for many! Some of these "omissions" are frustratingly in-grained. Only my deep reflections through Jesus' words and guidance am I able to root them out, and remedy them...in some form.

How do you as "singularly moral" people able to avoid the [subtle] occurrences of...well... sin and injustice and lies? Or, is that below the bar of caring?

Thanks again everyone! I really enjoyed reading most of your replies! Ron

[Angrboda]

Go blow Jesus out your ass.

[Bob Kelso]

As far as where the line is drawn, I simply follow my gut as to right and wrong. No need for me to write my ethics in stone, each and every situation is unique and said situations require context and personal beliefs pertaining to 'right and wrong'. So without a particular instance that's a hard question not to give a generalized answer to.

Also I don't believe in your sin, so that's a non-sequitur.