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(November 21, 2013 at 1:46 pm)Drich Wrote: In short We are commanded to Agape' God.
Despite your attempt at semantics, the reciprocation of true love cannot be directed from a fictional character toward you, except in your self-deluded mind. In order to further remain in the comforts that the self delusion provides, you have concocted the false ideal of being loved by a higher being in a cruel world that you believe lacks the love you seek.
Real love does exist, but no fictional character can provide it. Love may be irrational at times, but it is illogical to attribute love to the irrational belief in a fictional deity. One clearly does exist by the merit of universal human experience while the other does not by the fact that not everyone has a personal experience with it.
This is the part where I get to call you stupid or obstinate for not reading the defination of agape' even after telling you reading was manditory to continue this conversation. because We are not just talking semantics. We are also talking about translation and context as the orginal word denotes a specific aspect of Love that is lost in translation. To understand this aspect you must look beyond what this word means in your language and look to define it as the text was orginally written.
If you weren't being stupid or obstinate you would have noted Agape' is not a reciproical form of Love. Maybe this time if you choose to respond READ THE DEFINATION OF AGAPE! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
(November 21, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Drich Wrote: This is the part where I get to call you stupid or obstinate for not reading the defination of agape'
I read it.
(November 21, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Drich Wrote: To understand this aspect you must look beyond what this word means
That is why I disagreed with your assessment in regard to defining it for your own benefit. If I look beyond what a word means, is it not the same as looking beyond logic to accept an untruth based on fact, much in the same manner that theists take upon faith that which has no evidence to prove its existence?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Which is why Jesus was not received by ALL of them, however He was received by a large number of them, as a result their status as Jews was revoked and they were renamed 'christians.'
Actually he did not convert a large number of them at all. Many people were there to get the free food and handouts.
Quote:Actually they do, but not as you understand it. Your understanding is probably based on works like Dante's infurno, and renassaunces paintings. When in fact the biblical/NT description simply expounds on Sheol or what they understood to be 'Hell.' The Pharisees did believe in the same resurection, and the Saducees did not. (That is why they are sad, you see?)
Actually the OT never taught hell and according to Judaism who study the OT a hell of alot more than you Christians even confirm that there is no Concept of Hell and places where an incling of it can be put down to faults in the original translation. You know kind of like the way Mark has a Longer and Shorter ending?!
Quote:So do Christians, that is why Chirst says if you have the faith of a mustard seed, He will provide 'proof.'
Yeah christians do but when I was a Christian I never seen anything. Jesus clearly healed people and fed them and even in the boat Jesus told his desciples they had little faith so how the fuck can he expect our generation to have any faith?! You would think he would try harder?
Quote:To God 1000 years is like a single day... From that perspective Christ has only been gone acouple of Days.
Actually this is bang wrong wise-guy the Bible taught quite clearly that Jesus said he would go for 3 days then rise from the grave. Why did he not differentiate the meanings of 'Soon' and 'Long Time' and 'Days' because according to you Jesus is still dead as he has not reached his 3rd day?
Quote:Ooo Ooo I do I do!!! Why? Because I don't want to have to mix it up with those hate, murder and kill people who think as I do.
Actually I am going to be honest most people on Death row who have a Jesus conversion will be in Heaven actually even Hitler will probably be there considering he believed in God. Now please explain to me how that is Justified!
Quote:The resurection is what makes Christianity a viable religion.
Right so up until that point it was complete bull shit or wasent viable? Also @Dirch I would be careful about denting the Jewish belief they are basing their faith before your Jesus dude rolled in basically undoing the Word of God.
E.g. Why would we not be under the old covenant why have it in the first place - Did God not realise he fucked up?
Lastly I find it hard for a man to 'Love'. Jesus told us to 'Love' Him so does that make him a Fag?
I can understand a Girl thinking Jesus is some hot guy who she wants to fall in love with but I'm a dude so anything with the word love apart from my girlfriend makes me uneasy.
(November 20, 2013 at 10:22 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Yes, monkey, your friends and family are just like that teddy you had a child. You didn't really mind when your mum finally gave it away did you? Because you grew out of it. It'll just be like that in heaven, you'd have outgrown your friends and family and not give a shit that they're suffering in hell. Why can't you see this? Stop being so childish.
We use what 10% of our brains?
Don't know about you, but humans in general use the entire thing.
Quote:and even with such a diminished capasity to think, we can see and we have observed how an what even simpler, maybe a more undeveloped minds hold dear, and can attach themselves to the trivial. As we grow and develop we obtain understanding, wisdom and knoweledge which tends to break emotionally driven allegences. (Know it or not this is the core of the primary atheist arguement against the need for God)
(bolding mine)
You mean like how you attach yourself to the trivial idea of religions? Is it a core argument? Well regardless, it's true, we do, one day you'll feel the same way about your god, just wait for it.
Quote:Now Imagine if you can what will happen when we all get to heaven and God turn on the rest of our minds.
I've been using the entire thing this whole time. And I'm quite sure, don't quote me on this, but I'm quite sure your brain remains on earth and rot.
Quote:Even if by simple exposure to complete knoweledge and infinate truth we will be changed forever. Our knoweledge, experiences and level of wisdom will far exceed what it is now. Perhaps instead of seeing mother father, aunt uncle grand parent, we will come to the understanding that we are all indeed brothers as we were created by the same God, and that our ties to our imediate families will be shared across the board, until we get to those who simply do not want to be apart of creation.
That must be one of the coldest thing anyone has written on this forum. Well, let me tell you something. I've left a lot of people in my life, sometimes for good reasons, sometimes I just wanted something new. But I would never ever wish torture upon them and then tell myself, oh yea, who cares, they don't want to be with you anyway. I certainly would not do that to my family without whom I wouldn't be here today and who have been by my side since I was a helpless baby and cleaned my diapers and fed me good food and spent time teaching me and helping me with school for so many years just because I can now provide for myself. [/quote]
November 21, 2013 at 7:27 pm (This post was last modified: November 21, 2013 at 7:31 pm by themonkeyman.)
@Pineapple - Dirch is simply trying to use a very weak argument in belief that God will somehow open his head. However we are Spiritual Beings so I don't know how he can reconcile the 'Physical Brain' with his Bible.
Anyway this aside - I do from times worry about going to Hell If I am wrong but ultimately the way I see it is that Jews (Original People) Explicitly don't preach the afterlife. This came in around 300 BC - 90 AD when Rome got its hands on religion and started tampering.
@Pineapple I hear your view completely but for some reason Christians think 'SomeHow' its acceptable for God to punish those we love. I must admit as a Christian when I had to come to this concept I felt dis-intrested inside e.g. thinking 'At least I'm in Heaven'. So I can see where Drich is comming from.
To be honest though reading the Bible considering God who openly spoke to the Jews before Jesus and he never once mentioned a 'Hell' I'll go with the OT God on this one. Also if someone wants to throw the Lake of Fire into the Midst please do - Unfortunately though the Book of Revelations is hardly a reliable source. It largely contridicts everything you know about God and Jesus lol.
(November 21, 2013 at 7:27 pm)themonkeyman Wrote: @Pineapple - Dirch is simply trying to use a very weak argument in belief that God will somehow open his head. However we are Spiritual Beings so I don't know how he can reconcile the 'Physical Brain' with his Bible.
Anyway this aside - I do from times worry about going to Hell If I am wrong but ultimately the way I see it is that Jews (Original People) Explicitly don't preach the afterlife. This came in around 300 BC - 90 AD when Rome got its hands on religion and started tampering.
@Pineapple I hear your view completely but for some reason Christians think 'SomeHow' its acceptable for God to punish those we love. I must admit as a Christian when I had to come to this concept I felt dis-intrested inside e.g. thinking 'At least I'm in Heaven'. So I can see where Drich is comming from.
To be honest though reading the Bible considering God who openly spoke to the Jews before Jesus and he never once mentioned a 'Hell' I'll go with the OT God on this one. Also if someone wants to throw the Lake of Fire into the Midst please do - Unfortunately though the Book of Revelations is hardly a reliable source. It largely contridicts everything you know about God and Jesus lol.
You still believe in god? Even knowing the inconsistencies in the bible and the fact that there are multiple religions claiming to know very different gods?
November 21, 2013 at 11:11 pm (This post was last modified: November 21, 2013 at 11:13 pm by Darkstar.)
Long post:
(November 20, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Drich Wrote:
Quote: Also if I know that my mum / sister / dad etc are in Hell burning why the fuck would I want to worship the guy causing that?
Your statement to me is akin to a 4 year old telling his parent who has taken away his 'binkie.' That He hates them and will alway hate them for the rest of his life no matter what just because they seperated him from his beloved binkie.
You're equating his family burning in a lake of fire forever with someone losing a blanket? *Vomits*
(November 20, 2013 at 1:08 pm)Drich Wrote:
Quote: I would be tormented if my cat scratched all my freshly painted walls but it doesn't mean that I am physically in pain.
Why are you so sure that Hell is physical in nature?
While I cannot speak for him, I would say that it (if it existed) would not be physical, though the pain may feel physical.
(November 21, 2013 at 10:10 am)Drich Wrote:
Quote: Most people have good souls, if God truly loving then he should see a good soul and understand they were formed by what life presented them.
We are only 'good' when compared to much worse people. God says no one is good when compare to the standard He has set. That is why He sent son to redeem us. (Because He knew no one could obtain the standard He has.) It is now through redemption we take on the persona of Christ, in that we appear before God as sinless as Christ appears before God. That is the only way any of us can be deemed 'good.'
So you admit he made the standard impossible? And as a result, he (for some reason) had to incarnate himself as a human to kill himself so he could forgive us for not living up to a standard he deliberately made impossible to follow...
(November 21, 2013 at 1:16 pm)Drich Wrote:
(November 21, 2013 at 11:23 am)themonkeyman Wrote: Actually Drich when you mention we are only Good in comparison to other people what the heck does that mean someone who goes on several killing sprees throughout the Old Testament of Women and Innocent Children.
Can you prove they were 'innocent?' Or are you simply throwing out words to envoke an emotional response?
It would be hard to argue that little children deserve to die, unless you define 'innocent' as something like 'absolute moral perfection'. In which case, we all deserve to be tortured forever. Wait, that's exactly what you believe!
(November 21, 2013 at 1:16 pm)Drich Wrote:
Quote:Infact God Regretted Us!
Tell me you would not regret the desision to 'adopt' some bastard kid who hates you, who rapes and kills his brothers and sisters, who opposes you any chance he gets.
Adopt? Didn't he supposedly make everyone? And how many parents demand worship (on threat of eternal torture) from their children?
(November 21, 2013 at 1:46 pm)Drich Wrote: In short We are commanded to Agape' God. You only seem to understand that love exists as eros. which underscores my orginal statement. You simply do not seem to understand the whole meaning of the word. Not an insult just an observation.
Agape doesn't seem any easier to develop than the other types. In fact, unconditional, spiritual (whatever that means) love seems like it would be even harder to develop.
(November 21, 2013 at 1:46 pm)Drich Wrote:
Quote:They believe God revealed by National Revelation as a Miracle Enough generally isnt enough to prove God. So there we have it also - Jews need hard proof to believe in God.
So do Christians, that is why Chirst says if you have the faith of a mustard seed, He will provide 'proof.'
Apparently 'Chirst' is full of it. Wait, every ex-Christian just wants to sin and actually still believes in god. Never mind.
(November 21, 2013 at 1:46 pm)Drich Wrote:
Quote:The next problem I have is this Jesus guy! There were many people running around claiming to be the Savior of Mankind, Why then has Jesus Prophecies failed so badly. So far the word 'Soon' means 2000+ Years and counting. Funny that when you goto the other side of your book and find that God created the world in 7 Days!
To God 1000 years is like a single day... From that perspective Christ has only been gone acouple of Days.
And you know this...how?
(November 21, 2013 at 2:27 pm)Kitanetos Wrote:
(November 21, 2013 at 2:20 pm)Drich Wrote: To understand this aspect you must look beyond what this word means
That is why I disagreed with your assessment in regard to defining it for your own benefit. If I look beyond what a word means, is it not the same as looking beyond logic to accept an untruth based on fact, much in the same manner that theists take upon faith that which has no evidence to prove its existence?
Um...I don't agree with Drich, but you really took that quote out of context.
(November 21, 2013 at 10:06 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: You still believe in god? Even knowing the inconsistencies in the bible and the fact that there are multiple religions claiming to know very different gods?
As much as it would like to think it is, Christianity isn't the only religion, or theism, for that matter. Even if the Bible is bunk, he could still be a deist (although I don't think he is).
I'm kind of all over the place with this one; don't feel obliged to reply to any of it unless you want to.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
(November 22, 2013 at 1:01 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: @Darkstar, I think his post states quite clearly it's the biblical god he's worried about.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Could you elaborate?
Were you trying to say that he could be worried about gods of other religion and not xtianity? Because it's quite clear that he's talking about Christianity, that's why I commented on the bible and not other religions.
