Father Arguments

[Severan]

He also said: "Here's my gentle exit from this quagmire: an appeal to universal moral law does not have to be to a god. As Kant reasoned for universal morality while appealing to reason, not god. It's in my opinion, not satisfying, but any moral apparatus, that I've heard from this forum, dissolves into irrationality, and arbitrary-ness. To conjecture a moral apparatus, already defines what is good and bad, and to imperically decide what is good and bad, defines a moral apparatus, so that the reasoning is circular. In fact, this leads to a difficulty in using reason in the conventional way to discuss morality. But we all experience a kind of morality that cannot be denied. Godell's theorem definitively shows that any system cannot be complete and consistent. There are things that are true that cannot be proved to be true within that system. So you can continue to not believe, but you must accept the fact that you may be wrong in your unbelief. Don't give up,Keep searching for truth."

[FreeTony]

Morality should work something like this:

I won't murder you, because I don't want you to murder me.
I won't steal from you, because I don't want you to steal from me. etc etc

This is not morality , this is a self created mandatory to keep quiet yourself which is depending selfishness and cowardice .

Morality should work like this ;

I wont murder you , because I dont have a right to end your life , this is unacceptable .
I wont steal from you , because its your right to have it and not belong to me .

If two people of sound mind definitely 100% want to die*, then would killing each other be?
a) moral
b) immoral
c) don't know

*This is a hypothetical, but I don't want you worming your way out of the question by saying they don't really want to die etc etc.

[Nineteen]

If two people of sound mind definitely 100% want to die*, then would killing each other be?
a) moral
b) immoral
c) don't know

*This is a hypothetical, but I don't want you worming your way out of the question by saying they don't really want to die etc etc.

How would two people kill each other ? One of them will shot other one in head and then who got shot firstly will shot who fired firstly ?

This would not moral even if such a thing were possible . Why they dont kill themselves and makes each other killers ? This is like the man who jumped in front of train , makes machinist a killer . Actually all kind of suicide is immoral .

[Esquilax]

He also said: "Here's my gentle exit from this quagmire: an appeal to universal moral law does not have to be to a god.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm getting a little tired of christians retreating at the first hurdle and refusing to defend the moral system they actually believe in.

As Kant reasoned for universal morality while appealing to reason, not god. It's in my opinion, not satisfying, but any moral apparatus, that I've heard from this forum, dissolves into irrationality, and arbitrary-ness. To conjecture a moral apparatus, already defines what is good and bad, and to imperically decide what is good and bad, defines a moral apparatus, so that the reasoning is circular.

But if you're reasoning based on reality, something objectively true with quantifiable reactions to a wide range of stimuli that humans are likely to encounter, you can define your moral apparatus there, without needing recourse to any notion of good or bad than that which we experience in our lives.

In fact, this leads to a difficulty in using reason in the conventional way to discuss morality. But we all experience a kind of morality that cannot be denied. Godell's theorem definitively shows that any system cannot be complete and consistent. There are things that are true that cannot be proved to be true within that system. So you can continue to not believe, but you must accept the fact that you may be wrong in your unbelief. Don't give up,Keep searching for truth."

I think someone's just kinda fleeing from the problem, and misrepresenting a whole lot of what was said in the process.

[Minimalist]

I wont murder you , because I dont have a right to end your life , this is unacceptable .

* Muslim variant...."unless you draw cartoons of mohammed (FHUTA) in which case I must slit your throat."

[Brakeman]

Morality should work like this ;

Nineteen, This is a completely fun to watch video about observations of morality in animals.

Please watch it if you can and tell me why our morality couldn't have evolved from theirs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk

[FreeTony]

Actually all kind of suicide is immoral .

This is where we differ. I care about what effects my actions will have on other people, and I am in turn affected by their actions. You only care about whether actions meet your interpretation of rules in an old book.

If someone is doing something that has no effect on other people then they should be allowed to do it. It is your body, you have the right to do what you like with it as long as it doesn't harm others.

[Brakeman]

Actually all kind of suicide is immoral .

SHHhh! don't tell the christians that! They think jesus' suicide on the cross was the epitome of morality!

[pocaracas]

Actually all kind of suicide is immoral .

It is your body, you have the right to do what you like with it as long as it doesn't harm others.

There's more than one way to harm others.

In the broadest sense, one person who suicides is one less person contributing with taxes to the common good, hence it harms everyone.

[FreeTony]

It is your body, you have the right to do what you like with it as long as it doesn't harm others.

There's more than one way to harm others.

In the broadest sense, one person who suicides is one less person contributing with taxes to the common good, hence it harms everyone.

Yes, it is more complicated than that as you say. Suicide could affect relatives etc. But this is still effects on other people, not annoying some entity.