Fifty Questions That Christians Can't Answer

[Minimalist]

Christian principles as modelled by Christ.

Ah.


That's okay, Frodo. I didn't really think you could name any. Don't feel bad. None of your colleagues can, either.

[downbeatplumb]

Laboured point DBP. You too in another situation would be something else. Don't kid yourself that your beliefs are your own.

You are quite correct Frodo.
If I'd been born in Iran I would probably, at least pay lip service to Islam, as I would be relatively uneducated and ignorant of the wider world and alternatives.
So yes, if I was uneducated and ignorant then chances are I would believe like you.

[Samson]

Samson, my reply was somewhat sarcastic as well. Actually, derisive is more like it.

I never doubted you...LOLLOLOL

[fr0d0]

Too many pigeons, too few bullets. *Sighs*

[Samson]

Christian principles as modelled by Christ...are considered to be compatible with the development of societal principles. We can't tell if those are just our excuse to jump the bandwagon or if they would have developed naturally.

Oh yes, because there was no social morals before Christianity or a Bible was in tack....

You fuckers wreaked havoc for 700+ years to organize your, so called, "Morality" on a broader spectrum of social organized Institution. The age old expression of my way or the highway...Or better yet, my way or be killed was the Christian principles of then...

600+ years before your zombie boy or babble, you had men such as Buddha and Confucius spreading teachings of peace, cleanliness, education, and human rights. Which of course had not a damn thing to do with a Christ character or inhumane lessons book....

Just through observation and data collected; the societies that have moved further and further away from the dogmas have reached a better social conscious of morality, than the ones with.

So please tell me again how our morals began with the Christians, or how we somehow got it from them and Christ's teachings??


Fr0d0 quote:

Too many pigeons, too few bullets. *Sighs*

Some of that good ole' Christian morals seeping out again Fr0d0....?...

[Minimalist]

Ah....perhaps you are right, Sam.

I always assumed that this "xtian principles" crap was based on government as the constitution was formed.

What's always funny, to me anyway, about all this jesus shit is that for centuries the only system of government that could be traced to xtianity was the divine right of kings. They even put the appropriate words into jesus' mouth: "render unto Caesar." Xtianity was all about totalitarian government not democracy. Centuries of battles between popes and the nobility over who would call the shots and the common people were invited to STFU, do what you're told, and you'll get "your reward in heaven" (meanwhile...we'll just clean up down here!)

There is precious little "morality" in the constitution. As originally written it enshrined slavery and disenfranchised women.

Trial by jury was incorporated into English common law after they inherited it from the Vikings and it was the Norse again who kind of brought the town meeting concept into the world...when they weren't slaughtering xtians or anyone else they came across. What sort of brilliant judicial concepts did xtians give us? Trial by water? Trial by fire. Way too much "will of god shit" with those morons.

And as far as freedom, the Massachusetts Bay colony was founded on religious freedom for THEM not for any one else and should thus not be confused with tolerance. Most of the other colonies were founded for commercial reasons.

I'll keep asking any xtians who mention this xtian principles horseshit to name them but it has reached the point where I never expect an answer. Or at least not an intelligent answer.

[Samson]

I remember as a kid the teachers always told us in social studies and American History class, how that one of the reasons people came to the U.S. was to escape religious persecution and the monarchy/totalitarian system of their lands during that time.

Funny how so many here in the U.S. want to go backwards with what the founding fathers (so to speak) were trying to get away from in the 1st place. But then you always have that jackass that screams of wanting a different, but the same, crap-pile as what the people were trying to run from....

I literally want to throw up any time I hear one of these two phrases:

1. We were founded on Christian Principles and or a Christian Nation etc.

2. Our forefathers were all Christians etc.

[Rhizomorph13]

Oh, my this was much more complicated than I originally thought!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_co...e_Americas

The ones taught about in American High Schools (The Puritans) were Protestants fleeing tyranny from the CofE.

Many groups of colonists came to the Americas searching for the right to practice their religion without persecution. The Protestant Reformation of the sixteenth century broke the unity of Western Christendom and led to the formation of numerous new religious sects, which often faced persecution by governmental authorities. In England, many people came to question the organization of the Church of England by the end of the sixteenth century. One of the primary manifestations of this was the Puritan movement, which sought to "purify" the existing Church of England of its many residual Catholic rites that they believed had no mention in the Bible.

Our founding fathers were not Christians but they were Deists:

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no single religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had.

Fun fact - The Jamestown settlement that spawned the Thanksgiving tale was primarily an economic settlement funded by the Virginia Company. The Virginia Company owned the parcels of land and ran the colony using Socialist ideals so that all work efforts went to the company and the company would provide for the colonists no matter how much work they did! This was the main factor that led to the near demise of the colony. It wasn't until the colony was divided into parcels and people were given ownership of their land that they became self-sustaining.

They were sponsored by common stock companies such as the chartered Virginia Company (and its off-shoot, the Somers Isles Company) financed by wealthy Englishmen who understood the economic potential of this new land. The main purpose of this colony was the hope of finding gold or the possibility (or impossibility) of finding a passage through the Americas to the Indies. It took strong leaders, like John Smith, to convince the colonists of Jamestown that searching for gold was not taking care of their immediate needs for food and shelter and that "he who shall not work shall not eat." (A direction based on text from the New Testament.) The extremely high mortality rate was quite distressing and cause for despair among the colonists.

How Libertarian of John Smith!

So, yes the original colonists were a mix of faiths, but NO America was NOT founded by Christians and was NOT meant to be a Christian nation.

Rhizo

[Minimalist]

1. Lies

2. Damn lies.

Experience witnesseth that eccelsiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.
-- James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, addressed to the Virginia General Assembly, June 20, 1785

Great man that Madison.

[Shell B]

one of the reasons people came to the U.S. was to escape religious persecution and the monarchy/totalitarian system of their lands during that time.

To be fair, they were escaping religious persecution, but they were still very religious. If you ever get a chance to go to the Plimoth Plantation (yes, it is spelled that way here) in Plymouth, (I know, weird) Massachusetts, you'll get a real feel for how the early settlements worked.

That is not to say that our country is founded on "Christian principles," of course, only that the early settlers were religious. Now, if our country were founded on Christian principles, don't you think things like divorce and premarital sex would be illegal?