Question for Muslims

[tor]

I read a few chapters.

[Mystic]

Alright. Well Quran has general verses and specific verses.

When it comes to verses regarding war, there are more general, then there are more specific. But over all, they are specific verses with a general application.

What I mean by that is take for example the verse saying "And if they incline to peace, you too incline to peace". This is a verse, but if it's universal, then enemies of Mohammad would've been able to take advantage of it, and incline to peace whenever it suits them and fight back when it suits them. So it has interpretation that there must be somewhat of a sincere inclination to peace.

The verses you are thinking of that talks about killing polytheists or disbelievers, the same Surah says those who remained true to their treaties were not to be fought.

So while it says disbelievers or polytheists, it's referring to particular people in a region in a certain time.

That said, the over all spirit of Quran with regards to war seems to prefer peace over war but fight when needed too as well. When and why they fought when they did is situational, and the war ethics in Islam to me, seems to remain like that, it remains situational and open to the situation and is not anything set in stone, but the general spirit is that of peace.

[Marsellus Wallace]

The god in Quran tells the muslims to kill them .
Most of the people who believe in the Quran, also believe that Islam is the religion of peace, so they cherry pick from the Quran and eventually they don't kill anyone, and their opinion on the ones who do follow the Quran : is that they are terrorists and that Islam is not the reason for this and its just an act of a few .

Which is why I ask if Allah commands those things or not.
Because either.

He does command it and they disobey.
OR
He does not command it and quran contains false statements.

Which one is it.

Yes, he does command it, but they disobey it in someway .
I once asked my friend about this and he brought up a "hadith" that says that you should only kill them if they are attacking you or Islam . "Hadith" is some unconfirmed words said by Muhamed .
IMO : "Hadith" is just another excuse for whatever is wrong with the quran .

He does not command it and quran contains false statements.

If he doesn't command it , that doesn't mean its a false statement...

If you are trying to reach some kind of an accurate information about the right to execute someone in the name of god in the quran then give me a day or 2 to give you the correct passages names, cuz I hate to speak with no evidence(not good for credibility) .

PS : The Story of Islam is big, complicated and full of shit .

[tor]

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

What does this mean?

[Mystic]

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

What does this mean?

Read other verses in the Surah and read up on history. Within that Surah you will see verses saying not to fight those who stayed true to the treaty. It also goes through reasoning why they are being fought this time with this condition. It's because they kept on breaking treaties and had no intention of keeping peace treaties. So it's saying why wait for them to always have the element of surprise on their hand where they keep attacking you whenever they want.

The verses however are general. There were polytheists in the region who kept true to their treaties and hence this didn't apply to them.

It of course doesn't apply to the whole world.

Why don't you read the Surah?

[Rayaan]

Does Allah command killing of atheists and polytheists?
Yes or No.

No.

We are not even allowed to harm them (let alone kill them) as long as they have not declared any kind of war against Muslims: "Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, Allah does not allow you to harm them" (Surah 4:90). Maybe you don't know this, but fighting is only allowed for the purpose of self-defense such as to protect our family and property from an invasion.

It doesn't say anywhere in the Quran that Muslims should go around killing atheists and people of other religions. If you think that, then you are undoubtedly misinformed on this issue, and perhaps you never even read the Quran other than merely looking at bits and pieces which are taken out of context.

[Minimalist]

[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.

[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque (Masjid), unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

[2:192] If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

Interesting admonition for a group which stormed out of Arabia and attacked everyone in sight, isn't it? Perhaps they weren't "True Muslims?"

[Marsellus Wallace]

Does Allah command killing of atheists and polytheists?
Yes or No.

No.

We are not even allowed to harm them (let alone kill them) as long as they have not declared any kind of war against Muslims: "Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, Allah does not allow you to harm them" (Surah 4:90). Maybe you don't know this, but fighting is only allowed for the purpose of self-defense such as to protect our family and property from an invasion.

It doesn't say anywhere in the Quran that Muslims should go around killing atheists and infidels. If you think that, then you are undoubtedly misinformed on this issue, and perhaps you never even read the Quran other than merely looking at bits and pieces which are taken out of context.

Fighting is also allowed in the defense of the religion(islam) , don't you see how vague these rules are ? who decides what ?

The endless debates that people are bringing about quran counts for nothing, if they realized that there is an even bigger problem called "Hadith" that people actually follow .

If i'm god and I already sent 2 religions, maybe I won't send a new religion to make people fight each other in various endless wars in my name from the very very beginning .

[Rayaan]

Fighting is also allowed in the defense of the religion(islam) , don't you see how vague these rules are ? who decides what ?

Wrong.

We can teach people and preach to them the religion, but again, what we cannot do is fight anyone unless they pose a threat to our own lives.

Interesting admonition for a group which stormed out of Arabia and attacked everyone in sight, isn't it? Perhaps they weren't "True Muslims?"

Muslims stormed out of Arabia only to preach the religion, not to attack. And they established peace treaties as well.

[tor]

Fighting is also allowed in the defense of the religion(islam) , don't you see how vague these rules are ? who decides what ?

Wrong.

We can teach people and preach to them the religion, but again, what we cannot do is fight anyone unless they pose a threat to our own lives.

Interesting admonition for a group which stormed out of Arabia and attacked everyone in sight, isn't it? Perhaps they weren't "True Muslims?"

Muslims stormed out of Arabia only to preach the religion, not to attack. And they established peace treaties as well.

Did those pagans pose threat to the muslim lives? if not then they violated then those muslims violated your principle you posted above.