Christian "purpose" and "meaning" in life.

[Faith No More]

You're also not selfless either. You're just a biological mechanism. Enjoy that high! Now I know why we have so many drug addicts.

The difference being I'm not in some deep state of denial of what I am because reality scares me. Also, I recognize that being a selfish being has benefits, because it motivates us to take action. Our intellect allows us to use that motivation to benefit others, like creating charities. The thing about me me is that I'm not lying to myself that I do things out of pure altruism.

[Ryantology]

I'm using it because I mean it. If you live only to serve yourself, then you don't have any desire to help others in a way that would cause yourself to suffer. I see self-serving people as being selfish people. The fact that we might do something for ourselves doesn't make us self-serving, but it's when that becomes the focus of our lives. The focus of a christian's life is serving God and, in following his teachings we also serve others. Loving God also means loving others.

And, here you are, spending all day intruding on this message board, insistently spewing post after post of half-assed homilies and justifying the many atrocities of your religion, in a group of people who are far too familiar with this brand of bullshit to ever be convinced by it. You know it's not welcome or desired, but you do it day after day. You've also doubtlessly convinced yourself that most of the rules the Bible says you are to follow don't actually apply to you, because you don't feel like following them any more than I do. Let me know when they get around to sainting you for all these good works, because I want to be on hand to honor such a hero.

[Lek]

I'm using it because I mean it. If you live only to serve yourself, then you don't have any desire to help others in a way that would cause yourself to suffer. I see self-serving people as being selfish people. The fact that we might do something for ourselves doesn't make us self-serving, but it's when that becomes the focus of our lives. The focus of a christian's life is serving God and, in following his teachings we also serve others. Loving God also means loving others.

And, here you are, spending all day intruding on this message board, insistently spewing post after post of half-assed homilies and justifying the many atrocities of your religion, in a group of people who are far too familiar with this brand of bullshit to ever be convinced by it. You know it's not welcome or desired, but you do it day after day. You've also doubtlessly convinced yourself that most of the rules the Bible says you are to follow don't actually apply to you, because you don't feel like following them any more than I do. Let me know when they get around to sainting you for all these good works, because I want to be on hand to honor such a hero.

I'm not intruding here. Go to the top of the page and click on "Rules" and read the purpose statement. That's what I'm here for. If they didn't want christians on the forum I'm sure they wouldn't invite them and have a special forum just for christianity. I don't hold any animosity for anyone here. I enjoy the discussions and, believe it or not, I've made more than a few changes in outlook on matters of my faith since I signed up. I spend some time on a christian forum, but they don't challenge my faith. I want to mingle with different-minded people and put my beliefs to the test. I'm not your enemy, but if you don't want me here just don't read and respond to my posts.

[Rampant.A.I.]

And, here you are, spending all day intruding on this message board, insistently spewing post after post of half-assed homilies and justifying the many atrocities of your religion, in a group of people who are far too familiar with this brand of bullshit to ever be convinced by it. You know it's not welcome or desired, but you do it day after day.

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You've also doubtlessly convinced yourself that most of the rules the Bible says you are to follow don't actually apply to you, because you don't feel like following them any more than I do. Let me know when they get around to sainting you for all these good works, because I want to be on hand to honor such a hero.

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I'm not intruding here. Go to the top of the page and click on "Rules" and read the purpose statement. That's what I'm here for. If they didn't want christians on the forum I'm sure they wouldn't invite them and have a special forum just for christianity. I don't hold any animosity for anyone here. I enjoy the discussions and, believe it or not, I've made more than a few changes in outlook on matters of my faith since I signed up. I spend some time on a christian forum, but they don't challenge my faith. I want to mingle with different-minded people and put my beliefs to the test. I'm not your enemy, but if you don't want me here just don't read and respond to my posts.

You sure you've read these?

Telling them you know God exists because the Bible says so and that the Bible is true because God said so.

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Insisting that they really do believe in God but are afraid to admit it.
Ending your posts with “god loves you” or “I’ll pray for you.”

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Arguing that evolution isn’t true by simply pointing to a site such as AnswersInGenesis or being so ignorant as to say "it's just a theory".
Quoting Psalm 14:1
Asking them to open their hearts and give Jesus a chance.
Telling them they are going to hell.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-3559.html

This means that members should interact with each other in a proper discussion, and not purposely / repeatedly evade rebuttals made to them. Whilst members are not forced or required to answer every post addressed to them, ignoring them all and continuing to post similar content will fall in line with our "No Spam" rule. This includes posting links / copy-pasted content / scripture verses repeatedly, without adding your own comments or being relevant to the thread.

http://atheistforums.org/rules.php

If you're going to instruct others to read the rules, you would do well to at least take a cursory glance at them.

[Ryantology]

I'm not intruding here. Go to the top of the page and click on "Rules" and read the purpose statement. That's what I'm here for. If they didn't want christians on the forum I'm sure they wouldn't invite them and have a special forum just for christianity. I don't hold any animosity for anyone here. I enjoy the discussions and, believe it or not, I've made more than a few changes in outlook on matters of my faith since I signed up. I spend some time on a christian forum, but they don't challenge my faith. I want to mingle with different-minded people and put my beliefs to the test. I'm not your enemy, but if you don't want me here just don't read and respond to my posts.

You're here waving a flag of self-righteousness and implying that we're not as humble and selfless as thou art. It doesn't go over well when you are a part of a religious faith which has, with as little mercy as secular government has let it get away with, terrorized all the humanity it could reach since the day it was formed.

I didn't say you were breaking any rules. I did imply that you seem to think that you can shit on the living room rug, and we're not supposed to call you out on it because because you're allowed in the house.

[Mudhammam]

I am not arguing that intentionality is not a feature found in reality. I do say that theories based on ontological naturalism (or just naturalism) are inconsistent with the fact that intentionality is part of our reality.

Since the time of Francis Bacon, natural science has proceeded on the assumption that all physical processes can be fully described using only two the four Aristotelian causes: efficient and material cause. In biology, this culminates in Richard Dawkins‘s book, “The Blind Watchmaker”. Evolutionary processes do not seek desired ends any more than the planets do in their revolutions around the sun. To have a consistent worldview, the naturalist must apply the same rules to all evolved features regardless of whether it is the horn of the rhino or human prefrontal cortex.

Ironically, I think you're confused as to the purpose of reductionism. There's no inconsistency in describing, take for example, love as a biochemical formula but still acknowledging that reducing the emotion to an equation is not sufficiently descriptive of the subjective sensation itself. That's the job of great works of romance. Likewise, you're conflating two levels of understanding, two different modes of language, one for the microscopic and one for the macroscopic. The former often serves to inform the nature of the latter; it doesn't negate it. I don't cease to exist, nor does my meaning, because I'm a being made of atoms and not "soul stuff," because love is a biochemical reaction and not magic, though it can feel magical to me. Denying intentionality in the Universe is only denying that what deceptively passes to us as intentionality and intelligence is that which the lawful processes of nature have produced over time, using natural selection as the vehicle. You're saying that the process itself is an intentional and intelligent process, and reductionism denies this, as that is what the evidence suggests--the extinction rate alone seems to discredit the notion. Then of course, you can point to the never ending examples of deformities and mutations and collisions of debris and other general chaos that serves no apparent creative purpose; actually just the opposite. What you perceive to be the creative forces in nature is what probably drives you to your unjustified assertion that an invisible hand attached to an invisible head with an apparently enormous invisible brain is pulling the strings.

As it relates to this this thread, meaning is a particular kind of intentionality. The atheistic claim is that life can have meaning without God. Leaving aside whether the ultimate source of meaning comes from a Supreme Being or not, the naturalist that a says his life has meaning cannot do so without making reference to the very intentionality that he denies.

It's a very different thing to say, "Contributing to the advancement of mankind and the planet gives me meaning" than it is to say, "the meaning of the Universe is that evolution on the planet Earth would bring forth a person named PickupShonuff would who create his own meaning." You're conflating apparent design in the Universe--which comes about through chance and necessity, for reasons or not that regardless no one quite fully understands--with design that humans come up with, which from our perspective seem to be choices of purpose that are very dear to us. I'm sure when the chimpanzee in the rain forest is beating a rock against a nut to crack it open, it appears very purposeful to the chimp mind as well, however its brain processes whatever might be akin to our human conception of intentionality. Highly evolved brains, chiseled by hundreds of millions of years of natural selection do this. Not rocks. Not atoms.

Sure you do. Here I am talking about purpose, a second type of intentionality. Purpose is the final end someone seeks to achieve. If the final end endures without ceasing, I call that eternal. For example, the Great Commission charges Christians with the specific purpose of helping win souls for the Kingdom, which if true, produces permanent results with never-ending repercussions. If atheism is true, then humans accomplishments have no lasting value. Buildings decay. Monuments topple. Legacies wither. The sun explodes and everyone dies. Confronted with the vanity of earthly existence, the atheist cannot hope that the purpose for which they live has any value beyond the immediate future. In contrast to this, Christians can have such hope.

I don't think anyone seriously links their decision to get out of bed in the morning and find something that brings fulfillment to their lives with the death of the sun in 5 billion years or whatever it is. You're appealing to the age-old anthropomorphic desire that the Universe must serve your purposes on Earth. Does the dolphin take comfort that within a few years it will swim in a pure blue lake made of Jesus' tears? The brain evolved, some would say miraculously in the truest sense of against all odds, to do incredible things; question authority, develop science, send robots into space, fight disease and poverty. Sitting around and fantasizing, hoping the wish becomes reality without doing any of the hard work, is not one of them.

[Lek]

If you're going to instruct others to read the rules, you would do well to at least take a cursory glance at them.

If you can give me an example where I've broken the rules, do it, but 'm leaving this thread because we're going way off the subject.

[Jackalope]

Mod hat on.

Just a friendly reminder: Leave it to the staff to interpret and enforce the rules.

If you feel that someone is in violation in one of their posts, use the Report button at the bottom of the post.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Apparently you do not believe people can act purely out of love. That's a very cynical and sad view.

You're confusing cynicism with a refusal to sugarcoat reality for psychological comfort. I know it frightens you to think of humans as biological machines, because you believe it relegates us to insignificance. The fact of the matter is, however, that humans are reward driven organisms, and, despite your pious self-image, you wouldn't do a thing if you weren't revceiving a reward in the form of neurotransmitters.

You're not a selfless holy man. You're just hooked on chemicals.

Do you truly believe you live your live according to that philosophy?

[Rampant.A.I.]

God does not give purpose in one's live although praising god is very admirable it is not an actual purpose. Hinduism does not exactly answer this question significantly but instead gives a lot of maybes while only Judaism, Islam and Xtianity do this

Christianity, Islam and Buddhism pray to a bronze-age conception of the masculine side of human spirit and assign it as "A God" and pray to it.

That's not an answer. It's a self-help diary entry to your future therapist about anthropomorphizing the intentions of a reality that does not care whether you live or die. And for all the new-age paeanistic talk, I'm surprised you'd even tip your hat at humans worshipping the lizard-brain part of their psyche.

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Mod hat on.

Just a friendly reminder: Leave it to the staff to interpret and enforce the rules.

If you feel that someone is in violation in one of their posts, use the Report button at the bottom of the post.

Pointing out a rule violation wasn't my intention; rather the hypocrisy of saying the fact AF has a "Christian" forum as a lure for Christians to come and sell their wares and proselytize is ridiculous when the "Christianity" forum seems to be here to discuss Christianity, and proselytizing all us "misguided souls" is a misapplication of a rule and suggestions for theists.