Time to fight back: RANT

[Autumnlicious]

Considering I've cited pieces from your own posts and paraphrased the anti-foreigner statements (overruns et al), it is clear I've read yours, Cinjins et al posts.

You have not criticized what I have written directly, only claimed that I have misread it.

You have not clarified your position. It is you who is being disingenuous.

[rexbeccarox]

I'm sorry to harp on this, but I respect you, Cin, and I'm fully taken aback by you saying that to me. I didn't say anything like what you accused me of, and I'd kind of like an apology.

Who were you aiming this remark at then??

Your rant just seems like a racist bitchfest from where I'm sitting.

Seemed to me like it was aimed at Cinjin and perhaps even myself (on top of BlackSwordsman). I don't think he owes you an apology.

It was aimed at the OP, and the OP only. I didn't even suggest that it was toward anyone else. The word "rant" was a clue referencing the title of the thread. In fact, I'm pretty sure I "liked" a bunch of what you've had to say in this thread.

---

BSM, if you didn't want to be around Hispanic people or any other ethnic group, possibly the last place you should have ever moved is effing LA! Seriously? Your rant just seems like a racist bitchfest from where I'm sitting.

Dude. I just went back and read this. I even addressed BSM directly. I'm fucking pissed. Two of the people I respect most on this board have now attacked me.

[BlackSwordsman]

What if all the english speaking people ran to mexico, forced their culture on mexico (won't happen, mexico has strict border control). We all speak english, we all act like we are living in america, brought all our tendencies to mexico, sorry can't eat that it doesn't look 'clean'.

Yep that doesn't sound racist at all.

What I don't get is, who are you to say what "American culture" is? Yea yea I get it you don't like illegal immigrants. You could have said that. Started a thread with the OP "there are too many illegal Mexicans where I live".
I've got news for you, all of those foreigners who live near you are not mexican. Most, probably, but definitely not all. I have several Hispanic friends who chose to live in LA because they like that most people speak Spanish, none of them are Mexican and all of them speak English, and none of them are illegal immigrants. I get that you think people should assimilate. I agree to an extent, but people should be free to act and speak however they feel comfortable in their own homes and neighborhoods.
When I first got married I lived in a certain part of town where the rent was super cheap. All of my neighbors were natural born American citizens. They were loud, rude, annoying, and not a single one of them spoke a word of English as far as I could tell. Then again I learned English in Ohio and that was in South Georgia so, you know.

The reason people assume you are racist is because you seem to dislike foreigners for things that many if not most people in this country are guilty of. In America every community has its own culture. So, if anything, I'd say you are a foreigner in LA and you need to assimilate to their culture.

I could have but since the post had nothing to do with RACE it was other posters who focused on the tiny shit rather than the issue, being inconsideration.

Race had nothing to do with it, as stated before could have been any race, really. Just happen that, Hispanics were the race in question, could have been Arab or other. Race is stupid and pointless but it was brought it to suit others agenda, I am not anti-immigrant but I am anti illegal.


Inconsideration. <---that is the topic of my Original Post but it seems to have warped into another topic.

[Napoléon]

Dude. I just went back and read this. I even addressed BSM directly. I'm fucking pissed. Two of the people I respect most on this board have now attacked me.

I misinterpreted your post, I apologise. I assumed that as your post was directly after Moros' you were directing that at myself and Cinjin too. I'm still not sure what the fuck Moros is going on about. As soon as Moros posted his little rant I got seriously confused in this thread. He seemed to make remarks after quoting me directly that "I should go fuck myself". Completely uncalled for IMO and I can see why myself and Cinjin are a bit confused by his ransacking of this thread.

Considering I've cited pieces from your own posts and paraphrased the anti-foreigner statements (overruns et al), it is clear I've read yours, Cinjins et al posts.

Oh really? Is that what you did? Paraphrased? Really? I cannot fucking believe the shit coming from your keyboard here.

You have not criticized what I have written directly, only claimed that I have misread it.

I wasn't sure initially that your post here:

---

The problems occur however when foreigners come to countries to live and make no attempt whatsoever to adapt to their new surroundings.

The amount of pearl clutching here is ludicrous.

When people immigrate, they don't magically take on attributes of the local culture. Doubly so when surrounded by other immigrants of similar origin.

I've been able to integrate while touring through careful observation and knowledge of the areas history.

And I have no idea how you can port that behavior to others:
1. Most people are not observant.
2. Most people do not like to learn for a variety of reasons.

Why do people immigrate? Most of the time it is for economic reasons.

I live in a super white enclave and the sheer self unawareness displayed in this thread is amazing - I've seen more balanced responses where I live.

Bemoaning an immigrant collective for not integrating (seriously - how easy is it to learn another language, culture and history?) is like bitching how your neighbor doesn't agree with your politics

It happens.

Want to change it?

Come up with incentives or ease the transition to your local culture, history, language.

Don't want to pay for that?

Then go fuck yourself - you'll at least be more productive.

Solutions matter. So present them.

---

was even directed at me.

How you go off on that rant from what I said is beyond me. It really is. I'm still not sure if it's all directed at me. Pearl clutching? What the fuck are you talking about?

You have not clarified your position. It is you who is being disingenuous.

You didn't even ask for my position! You just assumed my position based on the fact I said something that should be blatantly fucking obvious.

"problems occur however when foreigners come to countries to live and make no attempt whatsoever to adapt to their new surroundings"

How am I wrong?

You have a go at me for not 'coming up with solutions'. You have a go at me for 'bemoaning immigrants'. What the fuck. What the actual fuck man. Instead of politely asking me to clarify my position, or asking me what my opinions are on these issues, you go straight into a rant. And I'm the disingenuous one here? Fuck off.

Where the fuck did I say I was anti-immigration? You know what really pisses me off? You made that post as though I was disagreeing with anything you said in it? As though I'd already made points that somehow contradict anything you've said.

I don't know. I'm even more confused. I'm still not sure what it is I've been accused of, but all I know for sure is I've been called disingenuous and simultaneously told to go fuck myself before I've even had a chance to have an actual say on immigration. Immigration isn't even the crux of the fucking issue in the OP.

[rexbeccarox]

Thank you for your apology Napo. I'm not Moros, I'm Becca.

[Autumnlicious]

Oh really? Is that what you did? Paraphrased? Really? I cannot fucking believe the shit coming from your keyboard here.

Same to you.

And ransacking? Grow a pair.

You are not the arbiter of the topic or what it encompasses. This one encompasses foreigners living in a country. Most people call that immigration. It also is comprised of nativist talking points, right down to the portrayal of foreigners overrunning the country.

Nor should I have to bend over and politely ask you to rephrase – if you really felt misinterpreted, I'd expect you to clarify.

Poor baby.

problems occur however when foreigners come to countries to live and make no attempt whatsoever to adapt to their new surroundings

You have a go at me for 'bemoaning immigrants'.

My mistake - apparently this is in no way complaining about those "foreigners".

Just some massive unawareness over why they haven't met your standard for "adapting".

You can dish out criticism to them, but you sure as hell can't help them adapt or even examine why.

Just your two minutes hate.

[Napoléon]

You are not the arbiter of the topic or what it encompasses.

Did I say I was? Yet again slyly accusing me of saying things that I haven't said. I still can't believe you call me the disingenuous one.

This one encompasses foreigners living in a country. Most people call that immigration. It also is comprised of nativist talking points, right down to the portrayal of foreigners overrunning the country.

Yeah, I agree. Where did I say otherwise? Why are you making these assumptions that I am at odds with you? You got an axe to grind or something?

Nor should I have to bend over and politely ask you to rephrase – if you really felt misinterpreted, I'd expect you to clarify.

IMO your comments to my post were so out of touch with what I actually said I didn't even think they were actually aimed at me. If that's a mistake I've made then fair enough. My bad.

problems occur however when foreigners come to countries to live and make no attempt whatsoever to adapt to their new surroundings

You have a go at me for 'bemoaning immigrants'.

My mistake - apparently this is in no way complaining about those "foreigners".

How the FUCK is that sentence bemoaning immigrants? How? You're trying to make out like I've branded all immigrants a problem? Is that how you took my post? If so, yeah, that is your fucking mistake. You're taking it completely out of context. Anyone with basic English comprehension can see that I was not talking about all immigrants, or even foreigners in general. ONLY THOSE THAT DO NOT INTEGRATE.

Just some massive unawareness over why they haven't met your standard for "adapting".

You can dish out criticism to them, but you sure as hell can't help them adapt or even examine why.

Just your two minutes hate.

Hold the fuck up. Since when am I not allowed to criticise? Since when must I be the one accountable for solutions for anything I criticise? Since when is it ok to tell someone they should go fuck themselves for not coming up with solutions? Especially when everyone else has been relatively civil throughout the thread. Since when is it ok to say that before you've even asked them to come up with solutions?

You're a fucking ass. I'm done with this bullshit.

[Autumnlicious]

Did I say I was? Yet again slyly accusing me of saying things that I haven't said. I still can't believe you call me the disingenuous one.

Accusation of "ransacking" isn't your attempt at redefining the scope of the discussion?

No shit. Guess I'll say others are ransacking threads if it doesn't encompass what I want.

"Slyly" - another instance of "ransacking"-style diction. Where's my Snidely Whiplash mustache? I've finally earned it dammit.

Yeah, I agree. Where did I say otherwise? Why are you making these assumptions that I am at odds with you?

I'd say the beginning of the divergence started here (I went way too fucking far using "pearl clutching" - it did nothing but detract from my position. I regret that.):

http://atheistforums.org/post-675559.html#pid675559

And was finalized at the beginning of this:
http://atheistforums.org/post-675819.html#pid675819

From that point, the assumptions were sealed.

You got an axe to grind or something?

Considering the effort being placed into having the last word by at least three of us, yes – there are axes to grind.

Good point though - this is becoming ludicrous.

IMO your comments to my post were so out of touch with what I actually said I didn't even think they were actually aimed at me. If that's a mistake I've made then fair enough. My bad.

Prior to the split above, I crudely attempted to address the tenor of the thread and selected one of your sentiments - a poor example. My bad.

How the FUCK is that sentence bemoaning immigrants? How? You're trying to make out like I've branded all immigrants a problem? Is that how you took my post?

Considering how slippery and arbitrarily defined "integration" is with respect to foreign born residents, what was stated above mimics nativist sentiments to a tee.

If so, yeah, that is your fucking mistake. You're taking it completely out of context. Anyone with basic English comprehension can see that I was not talking about all immigrants, or even foreigners in general. ONLY THOSE THAT DO NOT INTEGRATE.

Here we go again back into it...

Hold the fuck up. Since when am I not allowed to criticise? Since when must I be the one accountable for solutions for anything I criticise?

To escalate the meta game further, since when are others not allowed to criticize your use of unconstructive criticism?

Since when is it ok to tell someone they should go fuck themselves for not coming up with solutions?

You're allowed to heap shit on something else, but others can't heap shit on you?

Especially when everyone else has been relatively civil throughout the thread.

Really? Take a second look before you ascribe all incivility to me.

Since when is it ok to say that before you've even asked them to come up with solutions?

I get tired of playing by your imaginary rules - it seems I have to, like some idiot portrayal of some liberal college professor or NPR journalist, have to interview you and others, gradually drawing out more and more while you're allowed to make a snap judgement.

You're a fucking ass. I'm done with this bullshit.

It takes two to start a fight, amigo.

But I agree - I, too, am done with this silly charade.

[Whateverist]

In a pissing match of this magnitude one hesitates to offer up a new target. But, it does occur to me that the situation in the U.S. is different than in Europe. There it makes more sense to talk of an existing culture which one should know coming in as an immigrant. The situation with the U.S. is pretty different. Tolerance should be an important part of the culture in a nation of immigrants.

When it comes to groups of immigrants who come to a country which has established a culture of freedom and tolerance with the intention of imposing the oppressive demands of their religion on those who have taken them in .. I have no patience. When the Jihadist cry went up against a political cartoonist in the Netherlands I wanted to see everyone of them arrested and deported. I am least tolerant of intolerance on the part of guests.

[Cinjin]

Does this mean I get the last word? [/snarky]


To Rex -

Could you please post a link to where I allegedly attacked you. I'm having trouble understanding this. Napo and I have been on the defensive rather than the offensive this entire time.

I certainly can't apologize to Syn but I'll make amends with you if you can show me where my attack was.