Posts: 65
Threads: 14
Joined: December 10, 2013
Reputation:
1
Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 12:19 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2014 at 12:21 pm by Freedom of thought.)
I seen a thread in one section called "abiogenesis is impossible", yet they believe somehow proposing a magic man to do abiogenesis with magic makes it OK.
"Something can't come from nothing!" Unless you propose a magic man to create the something from nothing, because magic fixes everything.
"Well, the second law of thermodynamics means the universe can't exist forever", yet god conveniently is able to bypass this law which was just used to demonstrate his existence, with his magic powers. How convenient!
"There is no moral accountability without a god", yet Jesus's death wipes away all their sins and misdeeds, making moral accountability non existent.
"The universe needs a cause, it is absurd for it to exist without a cause!" yet the being they are proposing exists without a cause, brilliant!
TLDR; Whenever you are in a discussion, put up standards for your opponent, and then when your side of the argument doesn't reach the criteria, just propose magic that defies those criteria, it works every time:
Theist:"Where did the universe come from? It couldn't have existed forever because the 2nd law."
Me:"The universe is made of magic pixie dust, it can create itself."
Theist:"How can it create itself? Isn't that logically incoherent?"
Me:"Oh, this is a special transcendent pixie dust, and is above the laws of logic, so it doesn't apply. Without the universe creating itself, how else could it exist? Something can't come from nothing unless it causes itself to exist!(that is my metaphysical assumption you need to accept)"
Theist:"...."
Posts: 1946
Threads: 17
Joined: February 6, 2014
Reputation:
18
Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2014 at 12:33 pm by Rampant.A.I..)
What annoys me is the scientific principles are so close to the biblical story of creation, but because science does not define Abiogenesis as a literal giant dude molding humans out of clay, they reject it.
God created all life, evolution demonstrates all life came from a common ancestor and shows us the mechanism.
God spoke the universe into existence, there was a Big Bang.
Where's the contradiction here?
How can you hold a book and shout "Abiogenesis is impossible! God made man from dirt!"
What the hell?
Posts: 67043
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 12:45 pm
(May 30, 2014 at 12:30 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: God spoke the universe into existence, there was a Big Bang.
Where's the contradiction here? He spoke...before the big bang? what exactly was he speaking with and into......? If he spoke it all into existence that would omit the air as his creation - since he'd be needing that to babble into.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1946
Threads: 17
Joined: February 6, 2014
Reputation:
18
Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 12:52 pm
Of course, but assuming there actually was a "revelation" of Genesis to Bronze-age primitives, such a process would appear to be magic. And all magic relies on the concept of "dead naming," or the correct words having power over objects, "spoke" would be the only way for them to describe it.
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that an eternal being with no peers would have no need for language.
Posts: 67043
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2014 at 1:00 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Of course, but since we're now subbing words and meanings in and out maybe "God" meant "waffle" -the primitives never having seen one...and "created everything/spoke into creation" meant "was sitting pretty on a plate" -the primitives never having encountered them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1946
Threads: 17
Joined: February 6, 2014
Reputation:
18
Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 1:03 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2014 at 1:12 pm by Rampant.A.I..)
But Christians have never had a problem doing this. It's the same reason the "Song of Solomon," the story of the sexually charged interracial marriage of King Solomon became "a metaphor" for the relationship between the church, Christ and Christians, because Origen thought it fit the canon better.
All I'm saying is if they're going to go through the acrobatics of apologetics, why focus on denial of basic science?
Why not simply go with "Look: we're the one true faith, science proves it."
Posts: 6990
Threads: 89
Joined: January 6, 2012
Reputation:
104
RE: Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 1:53 pm
Basically it's special pleading and, if all else fails, magic.
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2014 at 2:13 pm by Faith No More.)
That's what happens when your worldview is an hodge-podge of philosophical contradictions.
Let's face it, no one ever became a Christian by trying to build an objective working model of reality from the ground up and then realizing that it was a perfect match for Christianity.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 67043
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Common self contradiction of the religious
May 30, 2014 at 4:08 pm
MAGIC!
checkmate.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8781
Threads: 26
Joined: March 15, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: Common self contradiction of the religious
June 5, 2014 at 12:38 pm
(May 30, 2014 at 12:19 pm)Freedom of thought Wrote: "Something can't come from nothing!" Unless you propose a magic man to create the something from nothing, because magic fixes everything.
Then where did the universe come from, you seem to be implying you have an answer?
Quote:"Well, the second law of thermodynamics means the universe can't exist forever", yet god conveniently is able to bypass this law which was just used to demonstrate his existence, with his magic powers. How convenient!
The universe was created to last forever, until sin corrupted creation, the 2nd law took effect.
Quote:"There is no moral accountability without a god", yet Jesus's death wipes away all their sins and misdeeds, making moral accountability non existent.
If there is no morally superior Being, then who do you suggest we be morally ac countable to. Jesus brings us to moral accountability, study the NT to find this out.
Quote:"The universe needs a cause, it is absurd for it to exist without a cause!" yet the being they are proposing exists without a cause, brilliant!
You tell me, how does an eternal being have a cause or beginning if you prefer?
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
|
![[Image: 146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i629.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu13%2FRXM843%2F146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif)
