Spare the rod, spoil the child

[The Grand Nudger]

They also call her by her first name sometimes and call me mom on accident.

My kids still don't know my name.......and they never will. Better not ask for whom the bell tolls you little shits.

[psychoslice]

Yep, children should be disciplined, sense they took disciplined away, its all gone down the toilet.

[The Grand Nudger]

Who took it? Where are they hiding it? Fuck, I need to get it back! I have 5 hours tops before my heathens wake up.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Wow. That's an almost religious level of zeal!

By all means, show me this evidence.

Oh for fuck sake. No. I won't do your homework for you. If you want to be ignorant, fine. This isn't even a point which should be debated and I'm certainly not going to waste my time doing so.

*edit*

In fact, why don't you just read this wiki article on corporal punishment, and make up your own mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_pu...n_the_home

This bit especially: "In countries such as the US and UK, spanking is legal but overt child abuse is both illegal and highly stigmatized socially. Because of this, any parent who has ever spanked a child would find it extremely difficult to accept the research findings. If they did acknowledge, even in the smallest way, that spanking was harmful, they would likely feel they are admitting they harmed their own child and thus are a child abuser."

Wow! Another religious type argument. An absolute statement claiming evidence, a request for that evidence followed by "go find it yourself". Are you sure you haven't converted?

Notwithstanding, I read the Wikipedia article . Some interesting stuff supporting both sides of the debate, but scarcely definitive. And again we have the problem that an open slap across the legs to underline a point is considered in the same light as hitting a child with an object or a closed fist. The latter is clearly going to colour any research data. If you considered obesity risk, including all those who can't get off the bed, you couldn't apply those same risks to someone with a bmi of 26.

Oh and for the record, I did say that I DON'T spank, or smack. I just don't have a problem with those who do.

[psychoslice]

Who took it? Where are they hiding it? Fuck, I need to get it back! I have 5 hours tops before my heathens wake up.

Don't be silly.

[Marsellus Wallace]

Who took it? Where are they hiding it? Fuck, I need to get it back! I have 5 hours tops before my heathens wake up.

no worries, this one was made inside a dying star

[Mystical]

Jacob, in case you missed it, I replied a page back to your question.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

A growing body of research has shown that spanking and other forms of physical discipline can pose serious risks to children, but many parents aren’t hearing the message.

“It’s a very controversial area even though the research is extremely telling and very clear and consistent about the negative effects on children,” says Sandra Graham-Bermann, PhD, a psychology professor and principal investigator for the Child Violence and Trauma Laboratory at the University of Michigan. “People get frustrated and hit their kids. Maybe they don’t see there are other options.”

Many studies have shown that physical punishment —including spanking, hitting and other means of causing pain — can lead to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children. Americans’ acceptance of physical punishment has declined since the 1960s, yet surveys show that two-thirds of Americans still approve of parents spanking their kids.

But spanking doesn’t work, says Alan Kazdin, PhD, a Yale University psychology On the international front, physical discipline is increasingly being viewed as a violation of children’s human rights. The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child issued a directive in 2006 calling physical punishment “legalized violence against children” that should be eliminated in all settings through “legislative, administrative, social and educational measures.” The treaty that established the committee has been supported by 192 countries, with only the United States and Somalia failing to ratify it
Around the world, 30 countries have banned physical punishment of children in all settings, including the home. The legal bans typically have been used as public education tools, rather than attempts to criminalize behavior by parents who spank their children, says Elizabeth Gershoff, PhD, a leading researcher on physical punishment at the University of Texas at Austin.

“Physical punishment doesn’t work to get kids to comply, so parents think they have to keep escalating it. That is why it is so dangerous,” she says. professor and director of the Yale Parenting Center and Child Conduct Clinic. “You cannot punish out these behaviors that you do not want,” says Kazdin, who served as APA president in 2008. “There is no need for corporal punishment based on the research. We are not giving up an effective technique. We are saying this is a horrible thing that does not work.”

Spanking isn't the end all be all, and often leads to escalating amounts of abus which is carried on, generationally, along with anger management issues. That's what I just read. We aren't talking about the person who occasionally has to refer to a spanking now and then, we are talking about spanking used as corporal punishment. we are talking about people in that facebook forum who use it as their sole method of punishment or enforcement and are being escalatingly excessive--even talking about hiding bruises and shit. Do you know what its like to hide a bruise, Jacob? Imagine a day in the life of a kid who does. Its a victimization feeling, an isolationist feeling, and a pure powerlessness that just doesn't need to happen

Physical punishment can work momentarily to stop problematic behavior because children are afraid of being hit, but it doesn’t work in the long term and can make children more aggressive, Graham-Bermann says.

A study published last year in Child Abuse and Neglect revealed an intergenerational cycle of violence in homes where physical punishment was used. Researchers interviewed parents and children age 3 to 7 from more than 100 families. Children who were physically punished were more likely to endorse hitting as a means of resolving their conflicts with peers and siblings. Parents who had experienced frequent physical punishment during their childhood were more likely to believe it was acceptable, and they frequently spanked their children. Their children, in turn, often believed spanking was an appropriate disciplinary method.

The negative effects of physical punishment may not become apparent for some time, Gershoff says. “A child doesn’t get spanked and then run out and rob a store,” she says. “There are indirect changes in how the child thinks about things and feels about things.”

As in many areas of science, some researchers disagree about the validity of the studies on physical punishment. Robert Larzelere, PhD, an Oklahoma State University professor who studies parental discipline, was a member of the APA task force who issued his own minority report because he disagreed with the scientific basis of the task force recommendations. While he agrees that parents should reduce their use of physical punishment, he says most of the cited studies are correlational and don’t show a causal link between physical punishment and long-term negative effects for children.

“The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

In a meta-analysis of 26 studies, Larzelere and a colleague found that an approach they described as “conditional spanking” led to greater reductions in child defiance or anti-social behavior than 10 of 13 alternative discipline techniques, including reasoning, removal of privileges and time out (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, 2005). Larzelere defines conditional spanking as a disciplinary technique for 2-to 6-year-old children in which parents use two open-handed swats on the buttocks only after the child has defied milder discipline such as time out.

[pocaracas]

Late 20th century, early 21st, "child psychologists" who know nothing of the day-to-day process of keeping kids behaving, but write books telling parents how to raise their kids.
It's big business.
We're all aware that there's no parenting manual out there.... but that doesn't stop these so-called "child psychologists" from writing books and providing "a" manual to parents.
The trouble is that they neglect something very basic, very simple, very obvious: each kid is an individual with individual needs and individual disciplinary requirements.
A "one size fits all" recipe will never work.
A book's guidelines will never fit with any particular kid.

The best advice to any parent is... the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy first sentence: Don't panic.
Learn on the job, trial and error.
There are things that work with the kids from one family that will never work with your own... and vice-versa!

Sure, you'll tend to rehash your memories of what your parents did to you... you didn't turn out that bad, so maybe it works... try!
While keeping the bad memories out of your arsenal... until such time as... well... panic comes!

You just need to get to the end of the day and say "I did my best, given what I knew at the time".

Still... some people should never be allowed to become parents.

[Mystical]

Spanking erodes developmental growth in children and decreases a child's IQ, a recent Canadian study shows.

This analysis, conducted at the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario in Ottawa, offers new evidence that corporal punishment causes cognitive impairment and long-term developmental difficulties.

Debates around physical punishment typically revolve around the ethics of using violence to enforce discipline. This inquiry synthesized 20 years of published research on the topic and aims to "shift the ethical debate over corporal punishment into the medical sphere," says Joan
Durant, a professor at University of Manitoba and one of the authors of the study.

According to the report, spanking may reduce the brain's grey matter, the connective tissue between brain cells. Grey matter is an integral part of the central nervous system and influences intelligence testing and learning abilities. It includes areas of the brain involved in sensory perception, speech, muscular control, emotions and memory. Additional research supports the hypothesis that children and adolescents subjected to child abuse and neglect have less grey matter than children who have not been ill-treated.

Medical professionals investigating the long-term effects of spanking have consistently found a link between corporal punishment and increased aggression in children. Such "educational" discipline correlates to higher levels of acting out in school and trouble in academic performance. It predicts vulnerability to depression, typically in girls, and antisocial tendencies usually manifest in boys.

Boys are spanked more than girls . Physical punishment most frequently occurs at the toddler or preschooler age. Parents of lower income and with less formal education spank more often. Religious conservatives tend to favor corporeal punishment, though not always the case. The King James version of the bible, Proverbs: 13:24, expresses the sentiment "spare the rod and spoil the child" in antiquated language: He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him bedtimes.

Parents who administer corporal punishment were often on the receiving end of it themselves. In other words, the cause of this form of "educational" violence are often hidden in the repressed history of the parents. When adults do not understand the connections between their previous experiences of injury and those they actively repeat in the present, they perpetuate a destructive cycle and inflict their own suffering on their offspring. The next generation continues to carry the damage that has been stored up in the mind and body of their ancestor. Conversely, parents can also work to become consciously aware of their own childhood pain and recognize how they transmit historical violence to their children by hitting.

Spanking gets quick results, but it doesn't reduce the undesired behavior. In addition to detrimental physiological effects, it may also inflict lasting emotional damage that inhibits the learning process. Physical punishment undermines trust between parent and child and breeds hostility toward authority figures. Being hit may subsequently hinder social relations in the classroom where there is a power differential between teacher and child. It is any wonder when hitting sends the signal to a child that learning occurs through punishment? This form of discipline pretends to be educational, but is actually a way for parents to vent their own anger. Spanking involves the learned misrecognition of injury as education. Figures of cultural authority, such as parents and teachers, may be construed as purveyors of sadism rather than knowledge. Corporal punishment undermines compassion for others, for oneself, and limits the mutual capacity for gaining insight .

If the American association of Pediatrics says no, I think that's a no. Unless you want a timeout?

Unless you can come up with a way to differentiate between those who are doing it for the right mindset from those who are merely reliving what was done to them. I don't mind not spanking my kid per the law if it means those Facebook people can't, either.

Why are we discussing what you do in your home? Well, an ER doctor could tell you. A social worker or a school counselor could tell you. My sister could tell you. Helpless kids can tell you too, especially the ones who go to school in one of the 20 some odd states that still allow paddle spanking at school. In elementary school my principle had a not only a paddle on the wall--but she had the paddle with holes, on the wall. Unacceptable IMO.






http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-me...-the-brain

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

People who hit children (not 'spank', not 'swat', not 'paddle' - the operative word is 'hit') are steaming great hypocrites. They hit children in an attempt to correct unacceptable behaviour. But how often do they take the same course of action with adult whose behaviour they don't like?

My parents had seven children - not a single one of us was ever hit. Not once. Was there discipline? Of course there was. But it simply never, EVER took the form of physical assault. Mum and Da had other ways of correcting us - extra chores, loss of privs, that sort of thing. The one Mum used that worked especially well on me was to look at me with a sad, sorrowful face and say, 'How would you like your father to see what you've done?'

My father was a great, braw brute of a man. Over six and a half feet tall and freakishly strong. But he never had the need to raise his voice to any of us, let alone his hand.

Those of you who think a swat on a four-year old's bum is effective parenting, I've got news for you: you're not a parent, you're a lazy sod who shouldn't be let any where NEAR a child.

Boru