Refuting misconceptions:2-jihad not terrorism

[Shell B]

first i hope at least the two threads i made make you have better knowledge about women in islam and also Islam and terrorism as those are the two major misconceptions about islam as i think second help me to clarify things about islam by telling me the misconceptions you have to prepare for my next thread about refuting misconceptions

I don't believe I have any misconceptions. Some people commit horrendous deeds willingly in the name of your god, some don't. It isn't much more complicated than that, in my eyes. The fact that your interpretation of "God's" word is different than abusive pricks and terrorists seems to be the only thing you are succeeding in convincing people.

[fr0d0]

ok i prefer to say that the extremest which are minority will disagree with me but they will also no be able to answer me when quoting from the Quran because they just ignore a lot of verses to justify their acts

when i say this is the reality of islam i dont force anything i just quote from the Quran so thats what the Quran says and again the same problem you cant judge islam by what some muslim minorities do if you believe that this is not what islam says prove me wrong

I've seen Muslim clerics consulted on TV who demonstrate using the Quran how their interpretation is justified. You may not like it but you have no actual position to deny that their interpretation is actually correct. AND... reading your own justifications for murder above... I see your faith as immoral.

[mo3taz3nbar]

I don't believe I have any misconceptions. Some people commit horrendous deeds willingly in the name of your god, some don't. It isn't much more complicated than that, in my eyes. The fact that your interpretation of "God's" word is different than abusive pricks and terrorists seems to be the only thing you are succeeding in convincing people.

see the example of the verse they use the problem isnt in the interpretation as it for cutting from the text

[Paul the Human]

Mo3, one thing you are missing is that we are already well aware that there are several different Muslim sects, each with their own interpretation of the Qur’an, just as there are several different Christian denominations, each with their own interpretation of the bible(s).

You have made it clear that your sect’s interpretation (or at least your personal interpretation) of the Qur’an is more peaceful and less abusive than many of them in the Middle East. You believe in the ‘Religion of Peace’ version of Islam. Good for you. That does not mean that we hold any misconceptions about what Islamic extremists have done and are continuing to do. Many of them are guilty of the mistreatment and oppression of women and many of them are guilty of murdering innocents in the name of Allah. That is the truth… not a misconception. They interpret the Qur’an in such a way as to justify the atrocities they commit… just as you interpret the Qur’an as indicating that they are wrong.

Christians do the same exact thing. Some will use their interpretation of the bible(s) to justify hatred toward homosexuals. Some will use their interpretation of the bible(s) to justify the oppression of women. And some will use their interpretation of the bible(s) to be loving and charitable to their fellow man. The existence of the latter does not mean that the former do not exist. Same goes for you. Your interpretation of the Qur’an does not mean that the extremists do not exist or that the atrocities do not happen.

You seem to think that we are under the misconception that all Muslims are extremists, but you are wrong. We know better than that. In fact, I think most of us are aware that if you take the Qur’an and compare it to the bible(s), without taking the actual worshippers into account… Islam seems a bit more peaceful than Christianity (debatable). That does not change the truth, which is that, in general, Muslims are committing more atrocities in the name of their god than Christians are in this day and age.

That is not a misconception. The misconception is yours. That misconception is that we (atheists) think that all blame lies with the Qur’an itself. We do not think that.

Another misconception that you seem to hold is that we give any kind of credence to what the Qur’an says in the first place. I’m sure you must know this, but we (atheists) consider all ‘holy texts’ - (The Qur’an, The Old Testament, The Torah, The New Testament, The Book of Mormon, and even Dianetics) - to be works of fiction.

Personally, I find it disturbing that these works of fiction have inspired such hatred and heinous acts throughout the centuries. Murder in the name of some make-believe deity has been happening since religion was invented by man - and will probably continue until man stops believing in fairytales. Of course, man does not need religion to justify his atrocities, but it is sure a handy excuse.

[mo3taz3nbar]

@ paul i think we are loosing the aim of all this threads about misconceptions my goal is to remove the wrong reasons that anyone can make his beliefs based on(i dont want to not believe in christianity because i think they worship idols but i want my refusal to be based on true facts) the same with islam you guys sure dont want to refuse islam because of some people not even following it.
all i want is to clarify what the Quran says(not different interpretations i just gave an example of what extremests do and thats is not called interpretation it is called misleading and most of the verses i mentioned is clear and dont want any interpretations) so when we start sharing our beliefs and thoughts it will be easier to share. especially when you are not talking with someone you think is violence or blindly following faith without thinking. at the begining when i joined this forum i was willing to just share not refuting misconceptions about islam but from the comments i got that this is impossible when you guys think am following a religion who opress women or order terrorism
about you having misconceptions it differs from one member to another but as i think from the comments a lot(not you) think that what the extremist do is what the Quran says and also some of them believe in the media so much all i wanted to do is to correct this for the people who have misconceptions about Islam itself regardless of what some people do
about me having misconceptions about what you guys think or know about islam i think it differs from one to another and if i thought that its because of the comments as i lack knowledge about what most atheists say or think about islam
i read only two books about atheism(god delusion and origin of species) and i hope that you give me the names of other books

[Paul the Human]

I think we're pretty much on the same page, mo3. It might not be the exact same book, but close enough. Heheh!

I understand that your intention has been to show us that the Qur'an does not condone or encourage the things that are being done in its name. Let's just say that you have succeeded in that. It is still debatable on a pedantic level, but I dare say that most of us here realize that the extremists are interpreting their religion in such a way to justify their deeds and crimes against humanity and that their book doesn't actually tell them it's the right thing to do.

However, most Muslims... all those who live the 'Religion of Peace' concept despite their tyrannical governments and in spite of being surrounded by extremist sects are not the ones we mean when we condemn Islam. We don't hear much about those people, because they do nothing that is 'international news' worthy. We hear about the terrorists and murdering lunatics of the extremist sects, because they are the ones blowing themselves and countless innocent by-standers to pieces in the name of Islam.

So, to recap... we know that most Muslims are not extremists, but that does not make the extremists go away. We also know that the majority of Muslims sit idly by while this happens, without bothering to denounce the extremists. Instead, they apparently choose to allow the extremists free reign to tarnish the worldwide image and reputation of Islam.

I'm happy that you are not one of those terrible Muslims that wants to commit mass murder for your god. What I want to know is why you and the majority of Muslims don't rise up against these terrible oppressors?.. or at least speak out against them so you don't feel the need to clear your holy book's name to a bunch of internet atheists.

[mo3taz3nbar]

I'm happy that you are not one of those terrible Muslims that wants to commit mass murder for your god. What I want to know is why you and the majority of Muslims don't rise up against these terrible oppressors?

do you think that if we can stop them we will not? of course we will but its not that easy to reach them or even talk to them and there is another problem regarding terrorism you have to cut the reasons from its roots so that people stop doing that like what is happening in israel nowdays i dont know if you know about the situation here but its like terrorism acts everyday done to the palestinians the results is there is a generation filled with hate and they cant even eat or get education so they start bombing themselves everywhere in the world as they start to blame every country that support these acts done by israel or by usa in a lot of countries

at least speak out against them so you don't feel the need to clear your holy book's name to a bunch of internet atheists.

i will not try to deny that muslims are not doing what they are supposed to do but some of them start doing a little by making programs and campaigns to increase the knowledge about islam but its not organised well so it ends up to be individual efforts(as yusuf estas) but i hope this will increase in the next few years.there is a campaign started from few months and they are willing to reach every country its called the fog is lifting wich aims to tell the people the truth about islam and to clarify what is our position as muslims againest terrorism and a lot of other things

[Paul the Human]

I'm happy that you are not one of those terrible Muslims that wants to commit mass murder for your god. What I want to know is why you and the majority of Muslims don't rise up against these terrible oppressors?

do you think that if we can stop them we will not? of course we will but its not that easy to reach them or even talk to them and there is another problem regarding terrorism you have to cut the reasons from its roots so that people stop doing that like what is happening in israel nowdays i dont know if you know about the situation here but its like terrorism acts everyday done to the palestinians the results is there is a generation filled with hate and they cant even eat or get education so they start bombing themselves everywhere in the world as they start to blame every country that support these acts done by israel or by usa in a lot of countries

Yes. And I'd venture to say that in many Middle Eastern countries, rising up, or even speaking out, would be a death sentence, since the extremist sect is actually the government. It must be frustrating for you that those who misinterpret your religion and use it for evil blame competing religions for political actions taken against them and in order to make it into a war of religions. That brings me to another issue, but I will wait until the end to address it.

at least speak out against them so you don't feel the need to clear your holy book's name to a bunch of internet atheists.

i will not try to deny that muslims are not doing what they are supposed to do but some of them start doing a little by making programs and campaigns to increase the knowledge about islam but its not organised well so it ends up to be individual efforts(as yusuf estas) but i hope this will increase in the next few years.there is a campaign started from few months and they are willing to reach every country its called the fog is lifting wich aims to tell the people the truth about islam and to clarify what is our position as muslims againest terrorism and a lot of other things

I understand that it is difficult... and for many more reasons than you mention. Again... it must be frustrating to know what damage these extremists are doing to Islam. I empathize. But saying, "Why don't the rest of you renounce them?" is a defensive response to being told we hold a misconception about Islam. Those murdering terrorists are Islamic and, from our perspective, Islam is not doing enough to put a stop to it.

Now, on to the topic I mentioned above. The problem is not Islam or the Qur'an. The problem is organized religion. Throughout history Christianity has been responsible for horrible atrocities and, certain isolated churches and denominations still commit them to a lessor degree, or at least in spirit. At this point in history, Islam has become the dangerous and violent cause of atrocities in the name of religion. Christianity and Islam are not special. They are not the only organized religions to have inspired hatred, fear, and injustice... but they (especially Islam) are the main ones right now. So, when you hear an atheist complaining about the evils of religion... there is a reason for it.

That is different than a belief in a god, whether you call him Allah, Yahweh, or Jahovah... or Tarvu. There are many believers that do not subscribe to any one sect or denomination and use their religious texts to guide them from a personal interpretation. An atheist doesn't believe in any of them... and that is all we have in common.

You probably hold several misconceptions about atheists and Christians. We have several of both here. If you have any questions for us... I'm sure you'll get answers.

[mo3taz3nbar]

You probably hold several misconceptions about atheists and Christians. We have several of both here. If you have any questions for us... I'm sure you'll get answers.

i dont have misconceptions about christianty i have been studying different religions for about 2 years and i also have a lot of christian friends here in egypt and its easy to know the answer of anything i want to know.regarding atheism i really lack the knowledge about how atheists think all i know that atheists dont believe that god exists and i read a couple of books but i really want to read more and most of the experiance i have about atheism that in some stage of my life i start thinking that maybe thre is no god

[Paul the Human]

Oh, yeah! I forgot you asked about books. I have read Origin of the Species and The God Delusion, too. The only other one I have read is The Case Against God, by George R. Smith. It is more a philosophical argument than a scientific one. I liked it a lot.

All there is to know about atheists is that when someone claims that a god exists, we say that we do not believe it. Other than that, we are all completely different people with completely individual opinions about every other issue in the world. A lack of belief in deities is all that makes us atheists. Nothing more.