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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 1:53 pm
(September 18, 2014 at 1:50 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Point is, what evidence currently unknown to us will change what we currently think of as impossible?
Might be impossible to speculate.
But the time to believe whatever is found, is when there is demonstrable evidence to support it.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 1:56 pm
(September 18, 2014 at 1:51 pm)LastPoet Wrote: (September 18, 2014 at 1:45 pm)sswhateverlove Wrote: And my point is that continued research into these sciences will most likely result in evidence that will flip our understanding of reality in much the same way as those examples did.
Funny, for someone using the quite annoying machine, this sub-product of such scientific endeavour. Science, it works, bitches.
Actually, I think he/she is professing the belief that science works. 
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 1:56 pm
Free thinkers and luddites. I find it hard to tell the difference sometimes.
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 1:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2014 at 1:57 pm by Surgenator.)
(September 18, 2014 at 1:50 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (September 18, 2014 at 1:32 pm)Surgenator Wrote: I'll coincide that you have examples. And I'll point out what changed their mind was evidence.
And i'd have it no other way. Point is, what evidence currently unknown to us will change what we currently think of as impossible? There are already experiments that were done on the topic that have negative results. The positive results are embarrassedly bias or statistically insignificant. So its not like these ideas haven't been tested.
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 1:59 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2014 at 2:05 pm by sswhateverlove.)
Quote:So, you are putting a much higher confidence than the actual trained scientists that study these subjects.
Again, what do you know that they don't?
Just my personal experiences, which are valuable to only me.
Also, have we asked these scientists their opinion? I haven't personally, but from what I've heard, somewhere between 7 and 15% of NAS members believe in a personal god. I don't know about how many consider the possibility of ID beyond that...
(September 18, 2014 at 1:56 pm)Surgenator Wrote: (September 18, 2014 at 1:50 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: And i'd have it no other way. Point is, what evidence currently unknown to us will change what we currently think of as impossible? There are already experiments that were done on the topic that have negative results. The positive results are embarrassedly bias or statistically insignificant. So its not like these ideas haven't been tested.
What experiments are you referring to?
Quote:Might be impossible to speculate
.
Nope, it's not. Forming a theory about a subject without firm evidence is exactly what we're doing. Not impossible at all.
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 2:15 pm
(September 18, 2014 at 12:33 pm)sswhateverlove Wrote: So, from my research, I think future revelations in genetics and in quantum physics will increase our understanding of the nature of consciousness and the role it plays in our reality. Call me optimistic. You can stick with 'no way Jose' and assume we (or you Rhythm) already know everything there is to know about it, but I think that's a bit presumptuous.
....and you still are strawmanning what you're reading. With few exceptions, what you are *not* hearing is "no way Jose" or "we know everything already" but rather that your speculation that the answer will be found in quantum physics or genetics is just that: *speculation*, and forming positive beliefs about same is *unjustified*.
I've known Rhythm for years, and I can't recall a single instance where he claimed to know everything about anything. So far, the only argument I've seen you advance to support your speculation is a pure argument from ignorance (paraphrasing, "we don't know what it is, therefore it could be X"). Well, no shit. It could be, but until you advance beyond to what is possible to what is probable, the vast majority of us are going to respond with "so, what?".
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 2:19 pm
Short version, you need to make a lot more effort to close the gap between "not impossible" and "worth considering".
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 2:21 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2014 at 2:27 pm by Simon Moon.)
(September 18, 2014 at 1:59 pm)sswhateverlove Wrote: Just my personal experiences, which are valuable to only me.
Maybe along with all the other research you've been doing, you might want to add how easy it is to fool the human mind and our senses.
Are you able to admit that it is possible that your personal experiences are probably not accurate?
Quote:Also, have we asked these scientists their opinion? I haven't personally, but from what I've heard, somewhere between 7 and 15% of NAS members believe in a personal god. I don't know about how many consider the possibility of ID beyond that.
Almost none believe in ID.
"according to a 2003 Cornell survey of leading scientists in the field of evolution, 87% deny existence of god, 88% disbelieve in life after death, and 90% reject idea that evolution directed toward “ultimate purpose.”
Quote:Nope, it's not. Forming a theory about a subject without firm evidence is exactly what we're doing. Not impossible at all.
What I was referring to as possibly impossible to speculate, is what evidence may be found in the future. Of course there will be new evidence in all scientific fields discovered in the future. How are we able to know what it will be?
None of what you are doing is 'forming a theory'. What you are doing is forming hypothesis, at best.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 2:25 pm
(September 18, 2014 at 1:59 pm)sswhateverlove Wrote: What experiments are you referring to? How about any of the James Randy experiments. They were tested under strict conditions that are justifiably scientific resulting in negative results.
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RE: Atheistic Dogma- Scientific Fundamentalism
September 18, 2014 at 2:32 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2014 at 2:33 pm by sswhateverlove.)
(September 18, 2014 at 2:19 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Short version, you need to make a lot more effort to close the gap between "not impossible" and "worth considering".
I am the only person who determines for me what is worth considering and I have determined that. If you have not been convinced of it, that's fine. I have only been explaining what makes it worth considering for me. You, however, are not me, wherefore you may need something else to sway you toward it being 'worth considering'.
I have no issue with that, you can consider anything you want. As can I.
(September 18, 2014 at 2:15 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (September 18, 2014 at 12:33 pm)sswhateverlove Wrote: So, from my research, I think future revelations in genetics and in quantum physics will increase our understanding of the nature of consciousness and the role it plays in our reality. Call me optimistic. You can stick with 'no way Jose' and assume we (or you Rhythm) already know everything there is to know about it, but I think that's a bit presumptuous.
....and you still are strawmanning what you're reading. With few exceptions, what you are *not* hearing is "no way Jose" or "we know everything already" but rather that your speculation that the answer will be found in quantum physics or genetics is just that: *speculation*, and forming positive beliefs about same is *unjustified*.
I've known Rhythm for years, and I can't recall a single instance where he claimed to know everything about anything. So far, the only argument I've seen you advance to support your speculation is a pure argument from ignorance (paraphrasing, "we don't know what it is, therefore it could be X"). Well, no shit. It could be, but until you advance beyond to what is possible to what is probable, the vast majority of us are going to respond with "so, what?".
Please see my previous responses regarding this. I'm not interested in continuing to discuss it with anyone but Rhythm.
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