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The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 3:55 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2014 at 3:59 pm by Mystic.)
I think in an attempt to a find a solution with the problem of evil, it's necessary to invoke the possibility of a afterlife that is perfect and everlasting.
If it is everlasting and of high happiness, in about a trillion years from now for example, any suffering in this world would be made trivial to the experience of bliss of a trillion years. This even more so as it goes on to infinity.
Now the only thing that is required for benevolence of a wise creator is some purpose to the suffering in this world.
Well I think a world where we can build character that comes before a world were we enjoy eternal bliss, is better that no one world at all.
More so, whatever makes the system over all better to character building and moral choosing, is a worthy of a sacrifice of trivial suffering because of an infinite reward that is gained by it (the character building and goodness).
Death would have to have natural causes, and it seems also, that a system were God is not constantly intervening is better then a system that he is intervening. this is because in a world were he constantly intervened, it would be counter productive to character building. It can also be invoked that diversity of intelligent life in the universe is one of the goals of the universe. Evolution therefore perhaps is a natural best way in which God would spread intelligent life in the universe. He would also not constantly interfere in the world as that would go against a better world set for character building and free-will.
I think this solves the issue of the problem of evil. Let me know if there are any flaws.
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:00 pm
I don't think it solves the problem of evil at all, since God could easily give everyone an infinitude of blis without going through ANY evil at all.
Quote:If it is everlasting and of high happiness, in about a trillion years from now for example, any suffering in this world would be made trivial to the experience of bliss of a trillion years.
Which of the following would you rather?:
a) I cut off both of your thumbs, but I give you a billion dollars.
b) I give you a billion dollars, and leave your thumbs intact.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:03 pm
(September 21, 2014 at 4:00 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don't think it solves the problem of evil at all, since God could easily give everyone an infinitude of blis without going through ANY evil at all.
Quote:If it is everlasting and of high happiness, in about a trillion years from now for example, any suffering in this world would be made trivial to the experience of bliss of a trillion years.
Which of the following would you rather?:
a) I cut off both of your thumbs, but I give you a billion dollars.
b) I give you a billion dollars, and leave your thumbs intact.
Boru
Sure, he can give them bliss, but it would be without the character building. The character building brought out in the world with suffering along with bliss, is higher. Since the character building is a perpetual reward, it's worth trivial suffering which is nothing compared to infinite bliss.
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2014 at 4:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The soul building theodicy. Is that the only way that he could build souls (presuming that it actually does - a hilarious assumption), through evil? Not omnipotent. Is there another way that he and I are unaware of - not omniscient. Willing to accept it in order to further that goal in spite of there being some other way? Not omnibenevolent.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:36 pm
(September 21, 2014 at 4:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The soul building theodicy. Is that the only way that he could build souls (presuming that it actually does - a hilarious assumption), through evil? Not omnipotent.
Perhaps it is the only way, perhaps it's not the only way he can build souls, but the best way. And since character building is a infinite reward, the best system for that is preferred.
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2014 at 4:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Right, not omnipotent, and I could offer you plenty of ways to "build character" without any need for evil (but assuming that it were...still not omnipotent). I presume that your god is -at least- more competent than myself?
(try playing blocks with children)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:42 pm
(September 21, 2014 at 4:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Right, not omnipotent, and I could offer you plenty of ways to "build character" without any need for evil. I presume that your god is -at least- more competent than myself?
(try playing blocks with children)
Why does it go against omnipotent?
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:44 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2014 at 4:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"The best way" implies that there is some immutable aspect of something that is not within his power to change or alter. If I were omnipotent, and the best way to do something was still shitty - the lesser of two evils...guess what -poof- it's no longer "the best way". Cotton candy would suffice as a soul builder.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:46 pm
It's really built up my character knowing that millions of children have died of starvation.
Now I don't waste food as much. Thanks god.
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RE: The problem of evil revisited.
September 21, 2014 at 4:46 pm
(September 21, 2014 at 4:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: "The best way" implies that there is some immutable aspect of something that is not within his power to change or alter.
Sure, he can't change the fact 2 + 2 = 4, if this is what you mean by that he is omnipotent, then that's fine. I'm fine with him not being that.
But that doesn't mean he doesn't have power to do all logically possible things.
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