Horrible things in the bible

[genkaus]

The receipts of God's wrath did worse things than that. They were in complete rebellion against God. They also killed babies and raped women and men. As for the babies, it's a matter of your perspective. From an eternal perspective, the babies died quickly and are spending an eternity with God in happiness. For you who believe that this is all there is, it seems pretty horrible.

Really? So the virgins were slaughtering people and the babies were raping... whom? And why the fuck would those babies go to heaven?

[Jackalope]

Witness above the toll Christianity takes on the humanity of the believer.

SMH

Go ahead and compare christians with everyone else and see who is the most humane.

I was comparing you. Anyone who can attempt to justify the murder of innocents as a matter of perspective is a fucking monster.

[Lek]

And the babies the Canaanites killed did not go to heaven? It seems like Yahweh is no better than anyone else at the time, because I really don't see anything anyone did back then as worse than what Yahweh did. He was just butthurt that when the other tribes killed babies, they weren't praising his name when they did it.

That's the big issue. They weren't paying attention to him, so he killed them, or had his followers kill them. He didn't go around trying to improve society. He just gave commandments to one group of people, and declared everyone else evil. What were his efforts in trying to help Humanity grow, besides ordering their loyalty and threatening destruction if they didn't worship him?

Before the flood it was stated everything was evil. Exactly how were they so evil, and what did Yahweh try before deciding to destroy everything? The bible doesn't go into that. It only focuses on the fact that people weren't paying enough attention to him, so he kept having temper tantrums.

The babies that were killed by the pagans went to heaven also. They were all too young to make a decision in regard to following God. I don't know how all the people on earth lived before the flood. I just know they purposely opposed God. You just can't get over thinking that God should be the way you think you he should be. God is who he is, not who you think he should be.

---

I was comparing you. Anyone who can attempt to justify the murder of innocents as a matter of perspective is a fucking monster.

If you call giving them an eternity of happiness as being a monster, then I'm guilty as charged.

[Minimalist]

If there is no "fall of man" what the fuck is "jesus" dying for?

Jesus dying for being his obnoxious unhinged idiot self on the wrong day?

I'm not the one you have to convince, Chuck.

[Chad32]

I know that a benevolent being that wants what's best for the world shouldn't be so hung up on free thinking people not devoting their lives to him that he's willing to kill everyone who doesn't. And is willing to have his own people tortured just in case they aren't one hundred percent loyal. You can say he rewarded Job with twice as much stuff as he had before, but I doubt Job had any trust in Yahweh ever again.

So if babies killed by the Canaanites went to heaven, and babies killed by the Isrealites went to heaven, why mention the fact that the Canaanites killed babies as if that had much if anything to do with why Yahweh was pissed at them?

You're right that I can't get over how Yahweh is portrayed as the bible, because christians portray him as a benevolent god of love. If I could get over it, I'd still be a christian.

[Lek]

I know that a benevolent being that wants what's best for the world shouldn't be so hung up on free thinking people not devoting their lives to him that he's willing to kill everyone who doesn't. And is willing to have his own people tortured just in case they aren't one hundred percent loyal. You can say he rewarded Job with twice as much stuff as he had before, but I doubt Job had any trust in Yahweh ever again.

So if babies killed by the Canaanites went to heaven, and babies killed by the Isrealites went to heaven, why mention the fact that the Canaanites killed babies as if that had much if anything to do with why Yahweh was pissed at them?

You're right that I can't get over how Yahweh is portrayed as the bible, because christians portray him as a benevolent god of love. If I could get over it, I'd still be a christian.

We didn't create the world and we don't have the authority to kill our fellow men and women. We are to treat each other with love and that's what christians are to strive for. We should love our neighbors and we have no right to treat others unkindly or unjustly. The fact is that lawbreakers are punished for their crimes even to the point of death. The judge and jury who sentences and carries out the punishment may love the person, but they are required to carry out justice for the good of all. Justice is a requirement for a for any society to maintain order and safety for the members. Love and justice certainly can co-exist. God loves us all and gives us all the opportunity to live eternally, but he also is just. You have just as much opportunity as I do to possess eternal happiness. I accept the fact that he is a loving [/b]and[b] just God and I follow him. You said that you used to be a christian, but couldn't accept that God could do all those "horrible" things. I don't think's that a good reason not to believe in God. That's not a judgement about whether he exists or not, but just a belief that he is not nice.

[Tonus]

Seems like in the old times he dealt with people as they deserved, but in the days since Christ he treats us better than we deserve.

The old testament god acted like any human ruler, seeking to use brute physical force to crush his enemies and propaganda to smear them and justify his actions. To believe otherwise means that we have to accept that every last man, woman, and child in the lands being given over to the Israelites were guilty of horrific crimes worthy of execution... but those would have been forgiven had they agreed to become servants and slaves.

The new testament god brought a much milder message to the masses, until the sermon on the mount, when he warned them that even such human emotions as anger or human desires as lust were sufficient to damn a person to eternal torment. He told the crowd that they had to be perfect, like god was perfect, even though he knew that this was a standard that was impossible for them to reach, through no fault of their own. He promised a future when he would return and slaughter his enemies, much like the old testament version.

Seems like he has always been an angry, brutal despot who lacks imagination. He is every tyrant's wet dream brought to life.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If you call giving them an eternity of happiness as being a monster, then I'm guilty as charged.

How many people have you - personally - killed to give them an eternity of happiness?

By your own lights, you should spend all your spare time going about killing infants ('dashing thy little ones against the stones' as it were) in order to speed them to an eternity of happiness. You might also have a go at back-alley abortions (I hear that wire clothes hangers and knitting needles aren't too pricey), or - at the very least - go round shouting at people who protest abortions that they are keeping babies out of heaven.

Why your lot can't grasp the divide between happiness and butchery is beyond me.

Boru

[Chad32]

We didn't create the world and we don't have the authority to kill our fellow men and women. We are to treat each other with love and that's what christians are to strive for. We should love our neighbors and we have no right to treat others unkindly or unjustly. The fact is that lawbreakers are punished for their crimes even to the point of death. The judge and jury who sentences and carries out the punishment may love the person, but they are required to carry out justice for the good of all. Justice is a requirement for a for any society to maintain order and safety for the members. Love and justice certainly can co-exist. God loves us all and gives us all the opportunity to live eternally, but he also is just. You have just as much opportunity as I do to possess eternal happiness. I accept the fact that he is a loving [/b]and[b] just God and I follow him. You said that you used to be a christian, but couldn't accept that God could do all those "horrible" things. I don't think's that a good reason not to believe in God. That's not a judgement about whether he exists or not, but just a belief that he is not nice.

"Because you're not worshiping me" Is not a justifiable reason to kill people. What is the point of free will if you're going to kill people for using free will? You talk about justice, but when something as small as not paying enough attention to the guy means the death penalty, there really isn't any room for justice. Sin is a useless word because it's impossible for free thinking people to be exactly like Yahweh, and in his opinion the only way to be good is being exactly like him.

Well that's the reason I wouldn't worship him if I had conclusive evidence that he existed. The reason I don't believe in him is that the only evidence we've found for a god called Yahweh is a lesser war god of a Canaanite/Babylonian pantheon. He was the Babylonian version of ares of the Greek pantheon.

There is a passage about loving our neighbors as ourselves. There's also a passage about hating ourselves, and some passages about killing everyone who doesn't worship Yahweh. The nice passages about loving neighbors and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, tend to swallowed up by the more numerous passages about doing the exact opposite.

I don't really think an eternal life anywhere sounds pleasant, including one where I'm constantly worshiping a guy I don't like.

[Chas]

You are not the first one here trying to make your god seem like less of a monster than he is - many have tried and all have failed. Which brings me back to the question you've avoided so far - why exchange one set of silly beliefs for another?

Seems like in the old times he dealt with people as they deserved, but in the days since Christ he treats us better than we deserve.

Maybe as you deserve, you silly twit.